Advise needed from primary teachers...how to make sure your child progresses without being seen as 'pushy'!!

[Swarski]

My DD had a 4a(reading); 4c (writing) and 3a (maths) at the end of yr3.

I am really not bothered about the SATs levels, but am maybe being cynical that the school will not push DD to achieve above a
level 5 by the end of yr6 - almost their target is met without them having to do too much in reading and writing...

She loves school and I would hate for her to get disengaged and lose interest due to lack of challenge.

So far in yr3 she has made little progress from yr2, and I understand that this is because there are children who need far more attention than she does (many in class are still reading at ORT 7-8 level).

My reasons for wanting to be challenged are to ensure that she stays engaged with education, not that I have any desire to produce a child genius. In addition, she will sit the enterance exam for a very academic private school when she is 10, so want to ensure that she continues to make progress.

Any advise on how to approach this with new yr4 teacher without appearing 'pushy parent'??

On the one hand, you are quite right-the school needs to differentiate.

On the other hand, I found that once dd had got to this level of reading, there was little risk that her progress would be halted as long as she had a library card. Ime there is just no stopoping a bright interested child from reading. And it won't matter if what she reads at home is at a totally different level from what she reads at school.

Writing and maths could be more of a problem; there I do think you have a point. Try speaking tactfully to the teacher if you feel she is not pushed enough.

Congratulations to your dd! Is she the only one to have achieved these high levels? If so, then there's a danger of her coasting next year. If she's in a group of children with high levels then the teacher's planning would reflect their ability. I'd ask for a meeting with her new teacher and say you're thrilled with her progress at the school (flattery works wonders!) and you'd like an idea of how to ensure she doesn't "plateau" and take it easy now she's reached such a good level. Schools should have a gifted and talented pupils database where they can access courses/clubs with similarly able children. These are sometimes outside school hours, or you may have to take her there yourself however. Her homework should reflect what she's learning in class, so you should be able to tell if it's too easy for her. At parents' evening ask the teacher what level she's targeted for at the end of year 4. This should be at least a sub-level above what she's already achieved, so it should be reading - 5c, writing - 4b and maths - 4c.
Hope this helps!

You are right about the reading - it is hard to stop her, but the school has done no comprehension with her this year. She is free reading so takes in books from home to read as her school book.

In yr2 (different school as only infants), she was taking home packs of related books and answering lots of questions about links between books. She also wrote a book review about every book she read. In new school at yr3 she has read to a teacher once and basically just continues reading books that she likes. We talk about books a lot at home, but school literacy lessons are mixed ability and she says she does the work in 10 mins and then reads her book.

I will discuss with new teacher in September.

I am out of sync with posts now as did not post reply to cory as I thought I had...

Thanks for all the advise. In answer to question about rest of class - it is hard to know, but would guess that she is unusual in her class - her friends make comments about her being 'really brainy' and 'clever' when they come to play. They don't get any homework so cannot tell from that.

I raised at parents evening at Easter and her teacher said she would be put in a reading group with year 6 children to discuss books (she was reading The Hobbit at the time), but this has never happened.

I absolutely understand about them all reaching different levels at different times and it may be that she 'plateaus' for a while now - just don't want her to lose her enthusiasm for learning....

Swarski - we have same problem with DS1 (age 10) who has just finished Yr 5 and entering Yr 6 next term.

He is at a Prep school that follows the National Curriculum. They really are just letting him coast along in Maths as he already far ahead of SAT Level 5. The teacher gets no more credit for doing anything more with him so she just focused on the weaker children.

DS1 has lost interest and finishes his work in 10 mins and then just sits looking out of the window. We never realised this was happening until last term and are mortified and very unhappy.

Like your DD our DS1 will be sitting exams for a fairly academic private school next year so we are doing some Home Ed. We too were very worried about coming over as 'pushy' but now we feel bad at letting things get to the state they have.

We have held various meetings with the school Head and reassured the school we are generally happy about many things but in Maths we need DS1 to be stretched to keep his interest. They just did not respond and said they would not be teachng hm things like algebra he needs for the exam at his next school.

The teacher just says he is doing 'so well' and she is happy with his progress. My advice is, do not be backwards at coming forwards at getting what you need. At least you are not paying fees yet - which we are.

Thanks Beenbeta for your comments - just makes me more determined to raise with teachers next term.

Feels like it has been ok in yr3 to spend time reading her book in lessons and not be stretched, but would not want it to continue next term.

She does a lot both in and out of school (piano, guitar, dance, gym) to stretch her 'sideways' which is what the school recommended for this year, but so far we have not done anything academic at home...apart from having lots and lots of books available. Have considered Kumon, which a number of her friends go to, but the feedback on this is that it is not so good for brighter children but helps those who are struggling.

Agree on Kumon. It is just rote learning. Fine for DCs who are struggling with the basics but not for DCs who need stimulating.

don't bother with kumon.

I worry about this sort of thing happening in the future (no idea if it'll be an issue or not though!) because like you I feel it's really important to maintain enthusiasm for learning and to be stretched. I was always challenged at school, I sometimes had different work from the other kids.

definitely sort this out ASAP, it can be quite damaging for children to coast. DH's DS was the cleverest by far in a rubbish primary and was never pushed by the school. he got so complacent and hasn't even vaguely reached his potential. very sad.

I just wanted to add that it's essential to work with them at home too. If she's in a large class, with lower ability children, then logistically she won't be "taught" by the teacher a lot of the time, but given work that the teacher knows she can cope with. It is unfair but in mixed ability classes I'm afraid it's commonplace. I'm finding out to my cost that my dd has largely been ignored for 3 years in the juniors (we've always been told she's doing well and near the top - now at the end of year 5 she's not!). Look at bbc bitesize, primary resources, maths whizz, teaching ideas. They'll give you resources to use at home.

I've also heard in some schools that it's frowned upon for children to learn advanced stuff. so you do a bit of algebra with your budding mathematician and the teachers are a bit

not a very good attitude really

Thanks for the resource ideas - will have a look at those. I am, however, fairly reluctant to do school work with her at home as she does loads of other stuff and I want her have time to just play.

I am encorougaing her to read more non-fiction books at home as well as the novels that she loves to read.

My concerns about about her becoming disengaged at school, so really think that I need to be pushing the school to challenge her....

You are doing the right thing letting her move ahead with her reading. DS1 has a reading age of 14. He CAN to some extent self calibrate in English.

Maths and some other knowledge based subjects has to be taught step-by-step though and if your DD is being held back she just will not cover the ground she needs to in order to be able to reach her full potential.

A child cannot just discover algebra, for example, even if they are intellectually capable of it. They have to be introduced to it by a teacher.

A lot of Primary school teachers who know a lot more about the practice of teaching will violently disagree with me (and MathsMadMummy) but I just feel that the National Curriculum does not cater for children who are very able. It is designed (perhaps rightly) to stretch the average and weaker children.

Good point, will definately look out some maths resources and maybe play a bit more chess with her (she loves playing chess, I hate it!!).

She has lost a lot of confidence in maths this year at school for some reason - despite getting 20 out of 20 every week this year! Lots of naughty boys in the class though so may be this putting her off rather than the maths....

I'm new to this, but just wanted to say how useful I've found these responses. My DD has also just finished Yr 3. She got level 5 in reading, 4a in writing, 4C in maths (truly astonishing) and 3a in science and we have been having the same concerns for a while about how to talk to the school about ensuring she works at an appropriate level. I have no desire to hot-house her but I hate hearing her say she has spent most of the day reading because she finished her work well before the others. The school knows she's able but catering for it consistently does seem to cause them problems.

You might see if she enjoys the 'murderous maths' series of books. Ds romped through them in primary school and 'discovered' not only algebra but all sorts of other maths stuff too.

Snoorkie - thanks for the suggestion. They look great.

Swarski -I love and totally agree with your attitude of wanting them to be pushed at school and not at home. When my son finishes his maths he is given tangrams or sudokos to do. Maybe you could arrange something like this with your teacher. There are also excellent logic puzzle magazines. If she was allowed to do these...

IndigoBell - good idea, it does seem a bit mad that when she has finished her maths or science she reads a book (I can sort of get this in literacy, but not in maths and science). She loves sudoko so that should work.

Have ordered a 'murderous maths' book, so again may send into school with her to read at the end of non-literacy classes...

ugh. su doku. obviously good if she enjoys them but I do get a bit sick of people assuming they are related to maths - they really aren't!

sorry I'll get off me soapbox - my point is though, there are a lot of much better logic puzzles out there which require more thinking than su doku (which is pretty much just process of elimination). there's a great magazine in WHSmith, probably too old for her ATM but worth having a look to see what's out there. hopefully you can find some good maths puzzle books

THanks for the tips , Ds, has just got his year 3 report and his scores are similar.

On doing a bit of digging I found that he does not get extension work as such, just more worksheets to finish of he finishes before the others. How is that stretching him?

He has the same teacher again next year, so I think I will be going in after the first week or so for a chat.

I'm pretty sure she will just say he needs to work more neatly, which I can understand and appreciate, but he is not being encouraged with his love of numbers and logic in school at all. Sigh.

Mathsmadmummy - logic is a very good way to extend a kid who's good at maths. Who knows, she may even turn into a great computer programmer.

absolutely... although computer programming... yawn!

as I said, su doku is good for logic but there's a whole world of other puzzles out there that are much more stretching and, um, logicky

I'm a primary teacher who will have Y4 from September but am more used to teaching Y5/6. It may be that your DD's new teacher has experience of teaching upper KS2 and will draw on that to support and stretch her so you mayn't need to panic that she'll be allowed to 'coast'. It is also possible that next year's teacher will moderate the levels and that your DD isn't a secure 4a in reading (it would be hard to tell if they've done no reading comprehension this year...!) and so will work with her on the areas she needs to improve.

I'd leave things until the end of September so you and your DD can see how groups are organised, if she regularly finishes her work to a high standard and when she does so, what work she is given to extend her. If she is being catered for then there may be no need for you to raise it with the teacher. If she's continuing to read a book for much of the day then something does need to be said.

My higher performers are given more complicated targets within a piece of work so in addition to including the various features of a specific text type I would also expect them to include a pre-stated number of appropriate connectives per paragraph etc. In maths I regularly provide Y7/above work for those who are ready for it and I teach my whole class how to play Boggle, to complete logic problems, wordsearches etc. so they always have something relevant and at the appropriate level for them. Only very occasionally do I let them read when they've completed their work (we do have 20-30 minutes of quiet reading time built into the day). I give everyone a reading diary www.edplanbooks.com/my-reading-diary-c31.html so each book they read is evaluated/reviewed and also so interesting vocabularly from their reading can be noted down for inclusion in their writing.

Hopefully she'll have a great year in Y4 with a well-organised teacher.