if anyone can help? (yr 5)

[RadioLater]

My son is 10 and year 5, September will be year 6. His report now states that he is
speaking and listening 4c, reading 2a, writing 2b, maths 3c, and science 4c. He is so behind everybody else - I really think that he may be dyslexic and am pushing the school to help. However based on these scores does anyone have another opinion? I really would appreciate your help, many thanks!r

you sound pretty accurate to me. I've been doing the same assessments with my yr 5 class. the 4c's are exactly where he "should" be, which is good; however as you know the reading and writing scores are well below the level expected for a child of his age and the 3c in maths - well imho you need to find out how they arrived at that, was it all the tests (mental maths, a calculator paper and a non-calculator paper) or if not, then what. And also how far off a 3b he is - there are 'grades within grades' iyswim.
My own ds1 is severely dyslexic and has scraped into the 3c grade for his reading and writing, but this is with lots of extra work and support, and specialist dyslexia teaching.
The bottom line is, these grades are an indicator, and his school should be asking the same questions as you are. They should also be looking at an IEP (individual education plan) to show where he needs specific support to help him to improve on the reading and writing. There is also the option of "teacher assessment" at this level[y5], and any good teacher will have had a level of expectation for every child - and if a child doesn't 'perform' in the test situation or produces too little for you to assess them on, then we have the option of using our own experience to grade them.
Much target setting to be done for him to get the best out of Y6. Can you go and have a conversation with the head or class teacher about your concerns? It's unlikely they're going to put any 'labels' on him, particularly a dyslexia one, but at least they can get their targets right, do him an IEP and get their own senco involved. All this is necessary before you can get an Ed Psych involved to look at the actual nature of any problems - if indeed they persist.

Thank you for replying. He has an IEP but I am wondering if there is anything else I can do over the summer holidays to help. I know that the school are reluctant to label (dyslexia?)but as a mum I would like to know what I am dealing with and his complete academic disability. That sounds awful but his other abilities are amazing- he is brilliant on the drums and is a member of the local lifeguard squad - but he just cannot write/read..

RadioLater - you are 100% right to be concerned.

Here are some reasons why children don't learn to read:

1. They haven't been taught well. An obvious one, but worth ruling out. How have they taught him to read? Have they used phonics or whole word reading? Does he know his phonics? ( ie 'ew' makes a 'u' sound ).

Can he segment and blend spoken words? (ie say the sounds in a word, and put a word back together if you say it to him in sounds 'c' - 'a' -'t' )

If you are lucky this is the problem, he just hasn't been taught well. This is very easy to correct - you just teach him to read

A nice learn to read program which is designed for parents to do is dancing bears

1. Irlen syndorme - this is a vision problem, which can be corrected by coloured glasses. If he complains of the words jumping around and blurring etc this is a good one to check. Some opticians will do a cheap test for this. Then if it is looking likely you will need to do a more expensive test.

1. Auditory processing problem - this means that although your hearing is fine, your brain can't really process what it's heard. You need to be referred to an audiologist to be tested for this. I don't think there is any cure for this, you just do things with him that help deaf people.

1. Retained reflexes - he has still got his baby reflexes which he should have grown out of as a baby. This can be cured by various exercises that are done 10 minutes a day. For example sensory integration or body brushing

None of the first 3 reasons were the cause of my child not learning to read, so I'm now trialing a retained reflexes program. If that doesn't work, I will probably do Davies Dyslexia Program

Good luck. Keep trying. And do your own research - don't just keep listening to the school (which have obviously failed him so far) - all the very vocal advocates of synthetic phonics on this site.

Interested in you mentioning the Davis Dyslexia program - do you have particularly good experience of it?

seeker - I have read gift of dyslexia which is an explanation of the program. It claims that the cause of dyslexia is thinking in pictures instead of words. My husband, son and daughter all have dyslexia and all think in pictures instead of words.

Obviously this makes it very hard for them to learn to read. My daughter is far and away the worst - I don't think there are any words at all in her head. For example we were doing alliteration and I said ' Awesome Amy' and she said 'yeah I'm Fabulous Amy'. We were doing rhymes and I said ' funky monkey' and she repeated back ' cool monkey'

I haven't done the full davies program with her yet because you have to be 8. But when my son was struggling to learn to read I explained the concepts and exercises in the book to him, and I think it helped. ( I also did EasyRead with him - so I don't know which one taught him to read)

All I can say is that all of the dyslexic adults I have spoken to agree with the theory of it.

RadioLater - if you think your son thinks in pictures instead of words buy gift of dyslexia. Two learn to read programes which are based around pictures isntead of just phonics are easyread and Phono-Graphix

Just be wary - there are lots of programmes like this about - and they are very expensive.

seeker - not nearly as expensive as letting your child fail.

The reason davies method is expensive is because it involves 30 hours private tuition. At £1000, she charges a lot less per hour than I do at work.

However you can do the program yourself at home, by following the instructions in gift of dyslexia

EasyRead is also expensive - but it has an unconditional money back guarantee. If your child does the program and doesn't learn to read they will refund all your money. So it's £700 if they learn to read, and nothing if they don't. An absolute bargain.

The price of the program has no correlation to whether or not it will be any good for your child. You need to do your research, decide if you agree with the underlying theory, and work out how much you can afford.

But nothing is going to be as expensive as your child not learning to read.

Phonographix isn't a programme that is based around pictures. It is very firmly rooted in letter/sound correspondences, blending and segmenting. Misunderstanding of it probably arises from the unfortunate use in PG of the term 'sound pictures' which they use instead of other more commonly agreed terms like 'grapheme'. They mean the letters that represent a sound.
PG is however a very good programme, and many parents simply work from the book "Reading Reflex.'

However with the child described in this thread, if the parent decides to look for a tutor, it might be worth checking out the RRF website and Susan Godsland's # www.dyslexics.org.uk and finding a tutor who uses one of the programmes like PG.

Dancing Bears, I agree, is a very good programme for a parent to use. I've taught some very difficult cases with DB.

Thanks for the link to the Davis Dyslexia stuff, I've not seen that before.

My son is in year 2. He's never had a formal diagnosis but is getting extra help at school with reading and writing.

A lot of dyslexia information I've read talks about synthetic phonics being the best method to teach but this is exactly what my son seems to struggle with. The Davis Website is the first I've read that actually describes the problems he has.

Bear in mind that the link to the "the British Department for Education and Skills" on the Davies site takes to you a site which provides information for teachers - it is just an account of what the Davies programme is about - it is not any sort of recommendation, and has a disclaimer to that effect. It repeats a lot of what is on the Davies site so that teachers know about it.

Caution: there is no scientific evidence behind the Davis Dyslexia method

dyslexia.mtsu.edu/modules/articles/displayarticle.jsp?id=71

....lot of dyslexia information I've read talks about synthetic phonics being the best method to teach but this is exactly what my son seems to struggle with....

Speaking as a long time teacher of reading, I agree with this and some children do need an extraordinary amount of practice to become fluent. Some still read slowly, but as long as they are accurate that is ok. I do think many of us completely underestimate the amount of practice required. And children don't particularly like practising something aversive.

Finding the right amount of the right kind of practice material is problematic as children get older and more reluctant.

One beginning reader I taught at age 5 was reading over 3000 words per week that I knew about, never mind all the words she was coming across elsewhere. Another child the same age, and we were struggling to get through 100, with all kinds of behaviour designed to wriggle away. Somehow, I believe,you have got to find ways to get the reading practice in,( even if it includes bribery ).

I looked at the Easyread site. I do think it could have provided more details, like a scope and sequence. The number of responses required in the first lesson were not that many, that could of course change as the programme progresses.

You can see exactly what you get with Dancing Bears. Computerised programmes look attractive, but for a poor reader you cannot afford to leave them get on with it on their own. They need adult supervision for the whole thing.

what did I miss?

In our area lots of the schools are using Sounds-Write. My daughter was behind and I got some lessons outside of school with a Sounds-Write tutor. Her spelling age come on by one year after 8 sessions. The school then sent her teacher on the training and she was able to help her in school as well.

As a mum who has two DSs who have struggled to learn to read, and in no way a professional I turned to Easyread this time last year. I have to say it has really helped both my boys in reading and writing.

DS1 was just beginning to read but with lots of wild guessing and skipping words he didnt know. He wasnt attempting to decode unfamiliar words and his spelling was totally phoneticly spelt. You couldnt even guess what he was trying to spell and he wasnt able to read it back. Now he is decoding words when reading and his spelling is now readable if not perfect.

I was in OPs shoes this time last year. I was so worried about DS going to secondary school not being able to read and write and being left behind. He managed to get level 4s across the board in his SATs and is generaly working at at level 3a in writing and level 4 in all other areas, so I am much more optomistic now. I can honestly say I dont think he would have been in this position if it wasnt for Easyread.

I would second Seeker's advise though. There are a lot systems out there offering "magic cures" to reading. Ive learnt a lot this past 12 months, Ive managed to get a dyslexia Dx for DS2 and DS1 has been promised an assessment when he starts High school. There is no fast cure to these problems and a lot of commitment is needed, sadly a lot of financial commitment in most cases.

I cant afford much but it hasn't been that costly especially as the school had my daughters teacher trained. I think they saw it working. I know what you mean about 'magic cures' but her progress has been amazing.

My son is just finishing year 6, he was years behind and has improved so much with the Sounds-Write programme. Check out the website, it's amazing how it just becomes so clear. You may also be able to do the course, although aimed at teachers and teaching staff, I did it and it's so rewarding. He now has the ability, not only to break down words and read, but to spell them too!We used audio books before to widen vocabulary and keep up with what his peers were reading, now we buy paper and hard backs!

When my dd was in year 4 I was told that she was failing in maths and had learning gaps. I asked for extra help and school advised me that she was not failing enough for extra help and they didn't have the resources for this.

Obviously, I was very unhappy with this. I made the decision to enroll her in Kip Mcgrath maths classes. It was approx £25 per session (approx 2.5 hours per week). They also gave her homework. She made fantastic progress, it really increased her confidence. We went for about 6 mths.

She has just received her sats results for year 6, and has a 4a for maths and 5b for english.

'When my dd was in year 4 I was told that she was failing in maths and had learning gaps. I asked for extra help and school advised me that she was not failing enough for extra help and they didn't have the resources for this.'

This is, of course, is completely unacceptable - and should not have happened. I am amazed that any school would say this.

I was very unhappy with this. It was her year 4 teacher that told me this during parents evening. In hindsight, I should have taken this further. However, the school had gone thru some major changes (the deputy head was sacked and sent to prison for sexual touching of some of the girls) They had new head and I didn't want to add to their problems.

Going back to Indigio Bell about Auditory processing problems and retained reflexes, they tend to be linked!

A good site to read is this one

www.inpp.org.uk/

The whole thing about the school not pushing for diagnosis of dyslexia is propably all down to money and funding! Assessment is about £500 I believe - the LEAs don't want to pay for it and then don't want to pay for the support they would then have to give.

Radiolater, my ds is 10 and at the end of Yr5 too. His SATs were similar - reading 3, writing 2, science 3, maths 3 (wasnt given sub-levels). See my thread. here

Ds had his first private tutor session (with a male teacher, I think this was important for ds), and he said it was brilliant!!! He loved the attention of 1 to 1 tuition and tried really hard. The tutor is going to focus on all the basic skills ds will need for secondary school. I hope this along with extra from the school will help ds catch up. His confidence is rock-bottom . We are also not doing any more school homework (agreed with the Head) but will instead focus on basic skills for 30 mins a day.

My dd2 who is not behind (yet) is lacking in confidence with her maths and school have put her on the "steps" progamme (can't find anything reader friendly on the internet about it). Basically you start them at level where they can do the work and go up one step at a time in a small group or 1 2 1 situation.

My dd has been put on this at the end of year 3, she got 2A - so it does make me question why these other schools have done nothing similar much earlier. Or if they have and the child hasn't progressed why they are refusing to refer for assessments.

It makes me on your childs behalf.