Annoyed about teacher's assumptions

[debs40]

DS is 7 and has Aspergers (recent diagnosis). He is quiet, compliant and doesn't cause trouble. He can have difficulty communicating with adults and in changes to routine. He has a good group of pals who all play together.

I got a note in DS's 'home/school' book yesterday (Thurs) saying he'd upset another child with his 'possessiveness' which had led to DS preventing this child joining the other children's play.

This is one of his pals but he has no particularly close pal and I've never known him to be possessive. The teacher had then sprung into 'social story' mode with the class and role play about not excluding others. The note then said 'we intend to follow this up with more work'.

I asked DS what had happened at play time that day(bearing in mind he'd come home for lunch so only had 2 x 15 min breaks)and he was completely nonplussed. He is a typical Aspie and absolutely brutally honest. He hadn't a clue.

He did say the teacher had done a role play about the 'bad friend' who drags his other friends around to stop them playing (DS told me this bit). Not him though.

This morning teacher tells me that the mum of this boy had been in to complain which is why she did the social story.

It was then she told me that the boy who complained was DS's partner on the trip on Wednesday this week. She said the mum said DS had stopped her son playing with the other children by dragging him off. His mum came into speak to school as this boy also has a close friend starting next year and she was worried that DS getting 'possessive' about this boy.

The teacher, rather than investigate or talk to both boys, or get details of the precise incident, decided to do a social skills 'comic strip' and role play on a 'bad friend' (DS's words) who drags his friends away from others.

I'm really upset by this as this little boy has been a good friend to DS. But the weird thing is DS hardly talks about him any more. DS is obsessed by Match Attax and football and the little lad doesn't like football. So I kind of thought he'd moved on. DS is very happy being friends with anyone who will play what he wants.

Also, I was actually on the school trip with them and they were both in my group. DS stuck to me the whole time and he was playing happily with me and the other boys playing football. However, the other boy was on his own playing sandcastles and couldn't be encouraged to join in.

DS is overly tactile (proprioception sensory problems) and I could see this was irritating the other boy at times - he lolls and leans. The other boy also said I always end up in DS's group on trips (school did this at the beginning of the year as DS felt more comfortable with this boy than others). I remember thinking he must be getting sick of that.

So I was a bit annoyed that the teacher has not investigated this but launched into 'social skills' teaching on the word of another mum. She also said they would have to do some work on the new boy starting as he was a friend of the other little boy and they didn't want DS to get 'possessive'.

Would she have done this for a child who isn't Aspie? I don't think so. The teacher didn't see the incident and I'm sure ordinarily she would have asked both boys about it.

I really think he is entitled to the same treatment as everyone else.

It really isn't in his nature to be exclusive.

Anyone got any suggestions?

I think the fact that the mother complained did make her take this action. I reckon she would have done it for anybody not just for someone with Aspergers. She has probably had training and thinks that this is the right thing to do. Expect lots "more work" to be done. Many kids are naturally possessive like this and it is quite normal but she thinks she is helping by instigating "bad friend" social stories. All very sad, but these are the times we are living in.

But that has not been my experience to date. I would expect school to say that they would ask the boys about it or investigate it or keep an eye, not just assume DS must have done all this and apply crappy social stories without talking to him.

The teacher has been crap this year - all 'problem, what problem' while he's been going through diagnosis. Now school are asking for a statutory assessment because they basically haven't got the time of day for him and she apologised for being 'obstructive' all year.

So I think she's trying to help but she has forgotten her common sense - find out what has happened before you start trying to change behaviour!

yes you are right, she should have done some investigation before acting. She probably has preconceived assumptions about your DS due to his Aspergers. The problem is that some of these assumptions could be wrong and this is where common sense goes out of the window. Great shame that the other mother complained about this, let's hope that "more work" is kept to a minimum and your DS doesn't notice that his supposed "bad" behaviour is trying to be changed.

Thanks. I am so upset by this today. I know the other mother and I just feel really let down. She seems to want to ensure that the new boy joining the class (who is a friend of her son's) gets to play with her son without interference next year and this just seems to have been accepted by school as somethign to work on with next year's teacher.

I have had to email teachers from this year and next year and suggest that if this child has a problem, he raises it when it can be dealt with and investigated annd speaks to a teacher.

DS is completely nonplussed by the whole thing. I have had to tell him that what was being said was aimed at him as I don't want him to leave himself open to further accusations. He wasn't upset about it but was very puzzled by the idea that he would want to keep this boy to himself or that he had dragged him to stop him playing.

Honestly, I get sick of making common sense suggestions to this supposedly 'outstanding' school.

I've now got to take DS to a blardy party this afternoon where the other boy will be there so I will feel obliged to stay just so he doesn't get accused of things.

yes I understand how you feel. Ridiculous state of affairs, making a mountain out of a molehill, and I wouldn't be pleased with the other mother's behaviour. Also it seems that the other boy has been complaining, possibly put up to it by his mum
"The other boy also said I always end up in DS's group on trips".
It is sad that minor issues like this are made such a big deal of, but you are right you now have to keep a close eye out in case your DS is accused of other things, such as interrupting conversations to get his word in. Sad.

Thanks for answering and offering support claig - much appreciated.

I completely understand how you feel Debs40, however, I don't think there was a need to tell your son that this activity was aimed at him. The teacher did something general about it, she didn't aim it at your son or say 'this is what you do' she did a general activity with the whole class. Maybe there are lots of issues of children being possessive in the class. The teacher should have spoken to you rather than written it down, as this can often be misinterpreted.

I know of other parents that would have become annoyed had the teacher attempted to investigate this issue. In September (I teach) there was a similiar issue in my class where the Deputy spoke to 4/5 children regarding different things and the parents all came in and complained. They believed firmly that she should have said something general in the classroom. So the next time (there were incidents of bullying on facebook), we did a general internet safety lesson, discussing how not to use facebook etc and we had another parent complain that we should have removed all the children that didn't use the internet from the class.

Being a teacher can sometimes be a no-win situation. Maybe accept that the teacher was actually trying to help?

There was absolutely a need because it is a pile of tosh and he needs to know that someone is lying about him. He is vulnerable and will trust people but this kid is clearly making up a load of all tosh.

The teacher spoke to me as well as writing in the book and told me this mum has said my son is doing soem vaguely described things but rather than ask my son, she embarked on a social story to try and get him to get the message and then said she would follow this up with 'more work' aimed at him.

I really don't see how this is fair when no one even knows (a) what was supposed to have happened and (b) that it did happen.

Further, I spoke to the mum today at a party.
Now, I know, because I have experience with the boys that they all play with the same friends. I also know that her son is actually, very solitary. My feeling is that he is probably feeling left out as he doesn't like football and the boys do.

I am furious to be honest that someone can just march in to school with vague complaints about him and school just decide to deal with him without talking about whether he had done this or not.

If a mum came into school and just made non-specific allegations about another child, would you then decide you needed to get next year's teacher involved and draw up a whole list of social skills strategies to sort the child out without investigating.

I'm appalled if the answer is yes.

Sorry, it should have said

Further, I spoke to the mum today at a party. She said DS was stopping her child play with his friends and calling his friends names. I asked her who the friends were and what DS was supposed to have said.

The answer - I don't know.

I should add she asked 'how severe is he' in terms of the spectrum.

Mmmm. Clearly, he's likely to be the one at fault as he's got an ASD. Let's not bother investigating.

He is vulnerable and totally unaware of what he is supposed to have done. People are going behind his back and telling tales and gossiping about him and this may lead to others forming a negative view of him unjustifiably. If the teacher can't see that and forms a negative view of his behaviour as well, then how on earth can he get fair treatment?

Claig that is what I worry about really. It is so difficult to raise something like this when the teacher may be doing her best, but , just like when they suggested he stay at home on school trip day (in case he gets upset by the change), it isn't on. They're seeing a label and not him.

I understand that you are annoyed. However, put it into perspective. A 'social story' was done with the class and a roleplay - probably one that is used many times.

As for this, I think you would have been annoyed regardless, because obviously you don't like the teacher. 'The teacher has been crap all year'

'DS is completely nonplussed by the whole thing.'

So if he isn't bothered by it, why are you? Has anybody actually accussed him to his face or are they just trying to manage a social situation? I'm not suggesting that your son has done it or hasn't done it, all I'm asking is, do you know for sure that he didn't? Are you not just believing him in the same way that the other mother is listening to her son? Hence why if the teacher doesn't act she'll have annoyed that Mum and if she does she will have annoyed you. Do you know whether the teacher has viewed this sort of behaviour from your son? Very rarely will a teacher act and put a whole scheme of work in place just because of one incident.

I get that you are annoyed and understand exactly why because he's your son and you love him. But do you really believe that this teacher wanted to cause huge issues for a 7 year old? Would any adult do that?

If this was reported to me in my class, then yes I would investigate. I would discuss it with both parents and children and then explain that we are going to be learning about friendship so it will help them understand different social situations. Yes she should have spoken to you in detail (you say she did earlier anyway) so how do you know she didn't speak to your son? You say he doesn't open up to adults in your first sentence - so how do you think he would react to her talking to him anyway?

TMy son is perfectly capable of talking to a teacher if asked about something someone shas said he did.

Thanks for providing the other perspective.

I think the point is that I am annoyed that there is an assumption made here about his behaviour whether or not he understands what has happened. Hence the title of the thread.

You would have investigated and I think most techers would so I am right to be annoyed at this assumption I think.

No this teacher has not seen this from my son. Believe me I have been through the mill getting a dx and help for him in school. He is not a problem to school, he is passive and compliant so why help? The teacher has said she has seen nothing herself and knows nothing about it.

I am not making assumptions. I have been told by the teacher that a mum came in and said x and she did a role play. Fine if that was the end of the story.

It isn't. She plans, as I've said, to do 'more work with him' because this other boy has a friend starting next year and they don't want DS to get possessive.

I've asked is there any evidence he is? No.

Has anyone seen an incident with this boy? No.

Did anyone ask for details about the alleged incident? No.

Are they making assumptions about DS? Yes.

I am not saying they've done this to make trouble or to be difficult. They haven't. But I am sick of being dragged into stuff because a teacher of 25 years standing can't work out that it would be best to investigaete what is happening before putting strategies in place.

I think debs40 is putting it into perspective and it doesn't look good. The teacher did the "bad friend" social story and then wrote a note saying "we intend to follow this up with more work". Who knows what this entails? Clearly debs40 is concerned for her son and if they intend to do more of these social stories then I can understand why.

"So if he isn't bothered by it, why are you?"
he is not concerned about it because he hasn't cottoned onto it yet, but when he does this might knock his confidence, stop him acting naturally and affect his friendships. debs40 is worried because this sort of tale telling and gossip may spread to other parents and this may affect her DS's friendships.

"Has anybody actually accussed him to his face?"
the mother has accused him behind his back and the school seem to have taken this at face value and instigated a scheme of work to be done on him.

"Hence why if the teacher doesn't act she'll have annoyed that Mum and if she does she will have annoyed you"
it's not about which adults the teacher annoys, it's about the effect on the child.

"But do you really believe that this teacher wanted to cause huge issues for a 7 year old? Would any adult do that?"
no the teacher thought she was doing good, but she may be wrong. The reason an adult would do that is because they may be misguided, they may be following a training manual which leaves common sense behind. Why do you think the headmistress of a school up North refused to allow a brother and sister to the end of term disco because their attendance record had been poor due to their father dying of cancer? She thought she was doing good. The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

I am on the other side of this. DD's friend is very possessive and can be really unfriendly when other children want to play. Friend's mother, who I'm very friendly with, has NO IDEA how her DD's behaviour has affected mine in school--she hasn't been able to play with any other children. She loves her friend but on the days that the friend hasn't been in DD comes home much happier and talks about playing with the other children. They are going to different schools next year so I haven't made a big deal of it but I did ask the school to encourage them not to play so exclusively.

I think you're being a bit paranoid TBH, your son may not be the only one who is possessive or exclusive. Social stories probably benefit most 7 year olds and it doesn't sound like the teacher has singled out your son.

My son has not been playing with this boy. They don't have a close relationship and no one else suggests they do.

I'm not paranoid. I'm working on what I've been told by school. One word from someone else and they decide he needs to be worked on. They would investigate with another child.

You know nothing of what it is like to have a vulnerable child in mainstream school. I work on closely with teachers. We have a home/school book for problems which goes to and forth every day. I speak to staff daily. No member of staff has mentioned any problem with this child. Then his mum comes in and the teacher who was only this week apologising for being obstructive to my attempts to get support for DS springs into action.

She was trying to help but she hasn't thought it through. With another child, she would have investigated and asked both kids.

I would suggest you talk to school if you're child is being so badly bothered. I think you'll find the teacher will probably say she'll look into it.

I think it was dealt with quite well actually. I think the fact that it wasn't a punishment specifically targeting your son but a class exercise was a good thing. From what you say it doesn't sound like she wants to upset your son, just deal with the possessive issue he has with other child.

Grape - That is the point - what evidence is there that he has a possessive issue with another child? If a mum came into and said to a teacher that your child was stopping their child play and calling their friends names but that she didn't know when or what was said or to whom and you were not aware your child even played with this boy any more, how would you feel? If the teacher than said she was planning to work on this with YOUR child and not even ask the children what had happend, would you be happy?

If you know anything about Aspie children, it is that they attach to things not people and are generally absolutely straight as they don't see the social purpose to lying.

Cat64 you are not reading what I say. The teacher did not just do a one-off story. She has said they plan to work on it with him next year. Why? Did teachers see something? No. Do they consider him possessive in his play? No. Have they asked the other boy to report further incidents or said they will keep an eye out? NO. Have they got a clue about Asperger's? No. Have they ignored him and not given him support all year? Yes.

This is an attempt to offer support but it is misplaced.

This mum also tells me that this is happening in class as my son insists on sitting by this boy. The teachers know nothing about this and concede they don't actually sit together. That must be my fault too

Next year's teacher at least had the good sense to email me and say the best way forward was for the boy to raise things if they happen so they can be dealt with.

Honestly. It's a no brainer.

But then he's got an ASD and we don't really understand that or won't children like that around our own little preciouses do we.

As the mum said 'they bite don't they, he's not like that is he?' Says it all

Unless someone else had already commented on it or it had happened before and the staff had noticed.

To be honest I think 'tis best not to overdwell on friendship issues, specially if your kid isn't bothered by the other kid or even aware of it. They seem very important with your first kid and then you dont give a toss the next time.

Perhaps you ought to look into other schools in your area if you feel this one is not supporting your son properly. I don't think you can have it both ways: you can't complain when they do nothing to help and then complain when they are trying to help. What would you like to see happen?

The other mother sounds really kind of awful, I'd try to have as little as possible to do with her personally.

I haven't been into DD's teacher raising hell because a)they're 4; b)they've finished already; and c)they're going to different schools in September. DD's friend is a well-intentioned child and DD is shy, easily led, and ready to break any rules she doesn't care for, so she has complicity in the problem. I wouldn't expect the teacher to go on a fact-finding mission as she probably wouldn't get much joy. They have both been encouraged to play with other children.

How on earth can a lesson on social skills hurt any of the children? My kid could use it--she thinks that because a friend plays a certain way, it's ok for her to play that way too, when it's not. It's too bad you feel that your son is being targeted but he can't possibly be the only child in the class in need of a little brush-up on being a good friend.