I dont know what to do now.

[Lonnie]

Bare with me please this is a bit long and may seem irrelevant to begin with..

the school my children go to is a small country school they have 102 students spread over 4 classes 6 years (year 1 being spread over class 1 and 2 the other classes taking 2 years together)

We moved down here nearly 3 years ago and overall up until last year have been ok with the school. Had certain issues but nothing that was not possible to deal with and was dealt with.

about 2 weeks ago we got a letter telling us that the minibus that the children go on every day was to close. I use the minibus for their transport simply because it is handy for me It gives me another hour each day and the school is a "green school" and I found it a positive and good initiative that they were trying to pollute less. We do however have a car and I am capable of driving them so whilst I was unhappy it was closing it wasn't a desperate measure.

One of the other parents whose child uses the bus got a questionnaire out about it she was keen for the bus to not stop. I emailed her back and contacted her saying can we talk. My opinion was we should be looking into grants to keep the bus running as a service. I agreed to go to a meeting Monday with the (new this school year) head and arrived at 12 noon for this. I queried from word go if a grant had been applied for and got told no and I expressed surprised it had not occurred (as to me it would be the obvious thing to do - I do a lot of voluntary work it is always where we look first ) she then starts to give us the figures and I ask for breakdowns (again on the assumption we will be applying for a grant) halfway through this (my asking for the hours one of the staff does on this seems to be the tricker she clearly didn't like being narrowed down) she went "I do not like your attitude and the way you are talking to me makes me not want to work with you" I went "err can I say something here" she went "NO you may not I am talking now and you can wait until I am done" I sat there thinking err I am not one of your students but I also decided to argue with her was futile as I didn't wish for the other 2 mums to have made a wasted journey (I do partly feel that she had gone for a fight because she was uncomfortable being asked to account for the numbers that the bus was making and I happened to be the person asking)
One of the other mothers pointed out that the school had for many years been under subscribed and the minibus had been given to the school so they could have this run and there were parents without transport that had specifically applied to the school because the bus was running, so if the bus closed then these parents would need to take their children out of the school if they were not able to get their children to school (it is not walkable from the closest town BAD roads dangerous to do). To this the head responded "well we are oversubscribed so if that was to happen I would simply fill those children from our waiting list".
We got the meeting over and done with my stating we need to apply for a grant and I outlined how much I figured we should apply for. I then had to leave and she had a lesson but before I did i went back into her office and said to her" you and I need to find a way to work together that doesn't make the other feel that the other person is rude. You clearly feel I am but I will also tell you straight up that I am not crazy about your attitude towards me and today was not the first time, and in the future I will NOT be spoken to like one of your students. If I was not willing to help I wouldn't be here it is that simple I took time out of my day to be here that in itself should tell you a lot. Now this may be a diversity thing or us looking at different cultural lenses but there is definitely a issue here that needs to be sorted" she looked completely shocked I had been that outspoken then said " perhaps we need to start over" and I replied "yes that's a good idea" I left thinking we had a fresh start.

That afternoon dh and I had a talk and we decided due to the heads comment on the whole waiting list thing her attitude towards me and general behavior we would look into if other schools in the area had spaces for our children. We had not made our mind up completely to move them but decided to investigate the options.
Tuesday I called 3 of the other local schools 2 had no spaces 1 said "I am not able to get into the computer at the moment can I phone you back?" I replied yes and gave them my number (all I had asked was do you have spaces) she said "what school are they at currently?" and I told her. The school has not got back to me yet to let me know if they have spaces.

FFW to today where I had been to my daughters 2ndary school for her yearly report I was on a complete high as she had done so well and was standing with her waiting for the bus hugging her anyone whom would have seen me would have been able to see I was delighted. The bus shows up and it is the head whom is the escort. My children get out of the bus and the head says to me in front of them "now that the children are moving on what will happen with the grant" and I was completely puzzled so replied "what do you mean moving on?" she went "well we received a phone call today from one of the other local school about the children" I cut her off and stated that I had been looking into options and currently had not made up my mind if the children were to move I would let her know once that decision was made at the moment the decision had not been made. Then left with my children whom were all wanting to know what she had been talking about. (thankfully I had discussed this with them as dd2 had walked in on dh and I discussing it on the Monday so my hand had been forced)

But I am now in a incredibly difficult situation.

I don't trust the head to behave well in front of my children she has twice in one week shown me complete unprofessional (once in the meeting once in front of my children whom she could not have known if were aware that we had looked into other options)

I have no option for other schools to go to the 2 closest schools are oversubscribed no places and the school that may have places have broken confidentiality with me and as I understand the data protection act broken that as well as I had not given them my permission to pass on my details in fact I had said when I phoned I was merely enquiring. I had certainly not given permission for them to mention to the current school that we were considering moving.

I feel my hand has been forced, dh and I were leaning towards keeping the children at the current school for another year as dd2 is due to take the 11 + next year and we felt it would be difficult for her to move in that year, there is also the entire issue with can we get her moved and still take the 11+ as I am unaware if this is possible.

I am really unhappy with the schools (I rang up) utter lack of professionalism and plan on phoning them tomorrow afternoon explaining to them exactly the situation they placed me in. I am aware it could have been a complete error though I suspect they rang up to find out what type of parent I am before telling me if they had spaces. (Obviously guess work I do not know)

However I am concerned about if we do decide to remain at the currently school how my working relationship with he head that I now do not have much faith in as for me she is not acting in a professional manner, If i am to move the kids now it will appear that my issue is her going off at me at the meeting and that I can actually cope with whilst I don't feel it is professional to do so I can cope and I thought it had been dealt with after the meeting.

However her choice to discuss something that personal in front of my children I am very uncomfortable with and her insistence on continuing to do so after I first had said we had not made our mind up I feel is not on.

I am considering writing a letter to her and the chair of governors expressing my concern over this and explaining how embarrassed this made me feel and how unprofessional she came across but I honestly do not know what to do is that the right thing? will she take it out on my children if I was to do so? will she see that she did wrong in discussing it in front of my children? did she see it as a way to get rid of what to her may appear to be a interfering parent.

As it is having been given the figures for the minibus I completely understand the decision to close it. I feel it was managed badly and should have gone out to the parents earlier so we could have applied for grants etc before it was closed by now if we are to get it up it will be January the earliest, however my main concern really is to me she shows no signs of being concerned about the pastoral care of the kids in her care or about the physiological effects her manners will have on them. To me she is not showing a good rolemodel but I have no better/other option as the only other school with spaces has shown them self in breach of confidentiality.

Only other option is one of the local private schools but that would be 30K a year and we simply do not have that as much as I would love to do so.

what do I do?

Firstly, I have no children in school (both under 4) as yet, so this opinion is an inexperienced one however I'm only 10 years out of school myself ("only" she says) so I have an opinion based on what I would think as your daughter. I would leave the children where they are and bite the bullet with this head teacher in hope that the minibus comes back in january. The breach of confidentiality from the other school(as a parent) is far worse for me than the Head Teacher being a plonker at the current school. The Head Teacher doesn't teach many (if any) classes therefore isn't likely to have a profound affect on your kids? xx Hope this helps, sorry if it doesn't.xxxxx

Ty for your reply.. I am still trying to make head and tail out of this. The head teacher does take classes and with all the 4 classes so they will have her at least once a week so that is a issue for me to take in to account. As it is my dd2 (oldest in the primary school) is not phased by moving school says it will be quite fun its the other 2 whom has more issues /worries about it.. With the school being that small however I do feel that the head will have an effect on the children. THere are 3 teachers leaving this year after she has started obviously they claim different reasons but I do wonder when there is that many leaving whyOne of the includes the teacher that started in January whom has declined a permanent posistion (and only lives 20 mins drive away)

This all sounds quite distressing for you.
And the fact there are so many teachers moving certainly rings alarm bells for me.

One option would be to put your childrens name on the waiting lists for the schools you would like them to go to. You never know how long it will take to get a place.

Another option (although quite drastic) is to home school them. You could also do this while keeping them on the waiting list for the school you would like them to go to.

(I think this sounds a bit extreme at the moment - but it is an option.)

BTW you can normally take the 11+ at the school you wish to apply to if you aren't at a feeder school for it.

I'd leave them where they are

you said youself your dds report was fantastic

it's about how they're getting on surely?

Why move them when they're happy and getting a good education?

the report for my dd is for DD1 in her secondary school this is the 2 3 younger ones in their primary school..

Blimey! I guess what you need to do is figure this out one piece at a time. The first piece is: are you certain the head is unsatisfactory? If yes, then the second piece is: what impact will this have on your children and their education? If you end up with the view that your children's development and/ or education will be negatively impacted, then your next step is to work out what, if anything you can do about that? Obviously you removing your children is possible, but not necessarily easy. So you could ask yourself if there is anything you can do to improve things?
Unless you believe that a letter would help oust this head from her job, then its a bad idea and will make things worse.

FWIW I don't think she thinks that you are a pushy mother per se. I think she felt that you were controlling the meeting and she was being challenged. If this was how she responded to such a meeting, then its another sign of lack of experience and her her response indicated a lack of professionalism.

I hope this makes sense... i haven't read it back but it does make sense in my head!

Schools do talk to each other about children who are potentially moving. In fact locally there is an agreement that the head approached will always suggest that the parents go back and talk to the head of the existing school about the issues. Part of that conversation is that one head will tell the other that they have been approached about moving. that is not stopping anybody moving it is simply trying to stop a family make a big mistake in moving the children if they have not properly discussed the issues with the existing school head.

Having said that the head teacher has displayed a breathtaking lack of confidentiality and sense in talking to you in front of your children and others. You and her have clearly not hit it off at all but i think you have to consider your children in this especially dd2. My feeling is that you should leave them at the current school rather than change now. See how things develop next year when hopefully the headteacher will have learned a bit of common sense.

I rang the other school today at first they denied it having come from them only once I pointed out that they where the only place I had phoned that had asked my name and the childrens school did I get a half acknowledgement of it. I pointed out how distressing this had been for me and how embarassing before she went in a very unappologetic manner "well Im sorry for any distres it caused you" and I replied "yes sounds like you really mean that bye" and hung up ..

I belive I will write to the head of the school to place my complaint in writing and to suggest her staff receives training on confidentiality and data protection. The worst thing about it is the school DIDN'T have spaces so why they had to call the current school at all I shall never understand.

I would leave the kids at the current school and don't write in to complain. I think the head will be fine with your kids. Clearly the head hasn't got the best social skills and maybe that is why she didn't think twice about mentioning the move in front of your kids. But it will soon blow over. You were upset by the head's attitude and looked into other alternatives, but on consideration it is probably best to stay as you are. I think the head will secretly respect you, because she knows you are not a pushover, so I don't think there will be any repercussions. But I wouldn't escalate it by complaining in writing. Now that the air has cooled, I think everything will be fine.

"The worst thing about it is the school DIDN'T have spaces so why they had to call the current school at all I shall never understand."
I don't know how it works, but it wouldn't surprise me if they all keep each other informed.

The head sounds rather unprofessional, but perhaps not malicious? Not sure what you meant by 'cultural' differences, but she seems genuinely unaware of how to act in meetings when the other person may have a difference of opinion. Perhaps she is taking it personally which is quite odd. You mentioned that she is quite new at being a head. So, her previous experience is with children, and her manner would reflect that.

She seems way out of her depth as being a head teacher is dealing with parents and other outside bodies. She absolutely should not have spoken about moving schools in front of the DCs, and shows bad judgement.

If you do put in a formal complaint about her, think about your options. It would be investigated, but doesn't seem that she has done anything as far as gross misconduct, so would proably be in the same position, but would possibly make things more difficult for you?

It sounds like a good school, albeit with a headteacher who wouldn't be a candidate in the diplomatic corps, but try and keep it in perspective. The conflict was initially from the meeting about the bus situation and things seem to have snow balled from that.

Are you in Lincolnshire/Norfolk?

I think as a mum of 3 that has had many run ins with school that you should pick your battles and just carry on as normal - hopefully after the summer the head will have thought about her attitudes and hopefully the break will do you all good.

I dont want to be condescending towards you but I have good advice - dont sweat the small stuff!,carry on supporting your dc and school and just move forward - you cant always get on with everyone.

Your children sound like they are happy and doing well at school so I would leave them where they are.

When you spoke to the head privately, it seems like she was trying to offer you an olive branch which you appeared to accept -
perhaps we need to start over" and I replied "yes that's a good idea" I left thinking we had a fresh start. You then rung three other schools to enquire about places.

Had the school that rung the current head agreed to keep your enquiry confidential? I would expect any prospective school to make contact with the current one for references / reports.

As the school didnt have spaces what did they need references/reports for? and I had stated when I phoned that I was merely enquiering to look at options it was most definetly not a do what you want

Lonnie, as I say I don't know exactly how it works, but I think they are all a network. It's the same with GPs.

As Admission has said, for very good reasons schools do let each other know about any applications made for transfer. This was a more casual enquiry, I know, but unless you very specifically said that you did not want your children's school to be contacted, it's not that surprising that they did contact the school, because from their point of view even a speculative enquiry may raise the same questions about whether there's been any attempt to resolve difficulties at the first school before moving. If you did apply for a place there, it would be considered under the terms of the school admissions code - your children's reports, or what you are like as a parent, would be irrelevant.

Do pick your battles with care. You have already rung the (prospective) school and let them know how you feel. I'm not a lawyer, but I don't see any breach of the Data Protection Act here (as said, exchanging this kind of information is standard practice). Likewise, think about what you hope to achieve from any formal complaint about the head of the current school. You and she had agreed to a fresh start. Might it be better to concentrate on that?