DD12 panic attacks at bedtime

[mummarunner]

DD12 has started having panic attacks at bedtime and we are at our wits end. It has only been since Christmas when routine went out the window and she struggled to get back into normal sleep routine. Now it gets to bedtime and she suddenly can’t breathe, her legs shake uncontrollably, and she freaks out and screams if we leave the room. When we ask her what is wrong she says she doesn’t know and can’t control it. That she is worried about not sleeping.

I have been quite soft with her the last few nights but DH is taking a much harder approach and came down quite tough on her tonight. Shouting at her to explain what’s going on in her head. I don’t agree with his approach but understand where it has come from as neither of us have slept properly in a week and we are exhausted.

I’m going to call our GP tomorrow but I was wondering if anyone else has ever experienced this? Is it a phase? She seems ok at school (started Y7 in Sept) - doesn’t love it but has made friends and enjoys extra curricular clubs and is doing well in her lessons.

Any advice welcome as I’m getting desperate for a normal night. I start a new job this week and dreading feeling exhausted all day. Thank you.

Has she maybe watched (or played on the computer) something really inappropriate that is troubling her once she’s alone at night? Maybe she doesn’t want to admit that she has, especially if she feels she may be shouted at more. There are so many really dark things out there.

She will never be able to explain it if either of you shout at her or make her feel bad.
I would speak to her school as well as gp. See if they have noticed anything.
Is she like this on a friday/sat night or just school days ?

something Is possible troubling her

could you have a look at her phone - messages, SM etc

I did consider it might be something on her phone. I do check her phone regularly and I honestly don’t think she’s seen anything inappropriate, however like many children her age she is obsessed with her phone so I’ve already thought about restricting it further. There are already quite tight parental controls on it but I think screen time generally may not be helping her overall state of mind, and she had more screen time over Christmas than usual.

It is happening every night at the moment, not just school nights. It has just come out of the blue, so odd.

I completely agree shouting is not helpful and I’m not happy DH ploughed in like he did, but like I say I understand why he exploded. Good idea talking to the school, I’ll message her tutor tomorrow too.

A hard approach to panic disorder is never the right strategy! I say this as a parent whose daughter developed it mid teens. I got her referred to CAHMS but there was a massive waiting list so I paid for a private psychiatrist. If your husband is going to shout at her I would remove him from the nighttime routine all together, try exposure and build going to bed in stages so she can manage each stage, it may be your daughter has developed an anxiety condition and is having bad nightmares so you may need to discuss that.

Can an anxiety condition like this happen overnight though? It certainly feels like this is what it is, but it has come out of the blue and taken us by surprise!

Is it when you turn the light out? What about telling her she can have a night light and doesn't have to go to sleep just rest in bed with a book or listen to a podcast/story?

it may be ‘out of the blue’ for you guys but I bet when you unpick it there have been issues for her for a while.

This

one day it just bursts

OP try to get her to sleep with you this week - for girly chat etc have a little chit chat before bed …

Thank you for responding, I appreciate it. Strangely she already has a night light but has asked for it to be turned out. I am going to remove her clock from her room as she is clock watching and I noticed she had turned it to the wall last night - the anxiety definitely stems from feeling she’s not getting enough sleep. It was rough last night and she’s currently in tears not wanting to go to school. I don’t want to go down that route though so I’m making her go and I will tackle this with her tutor and GP later today. Thanks for the replies.

i wrote almost this exact same post a few weeks ago. My DD is younger, and suffered the same with sleep anxiety. Triggered initially from jet lag after our holiday.

We are 5 months in now, and have been through hell with the same type of nights you described. Swapping between being patient & calm, to struggling to keep our cool.

it’s so easy to just say you need to stay calm, but this sleep deprivation is much worse than my newborn era, both DH & I trying to hold down FT busy jobs & juggling other children activities etc.

We are now in child play therapy, after months of trying to find someone with availability.

GP prescribed melatonin in early December which has helped somewhat.

we also removed clocks & lights at her request. She now has melatonin about a hour before sleep, then reads for a good hour.

still have bad nights, but not like the first 3/4 months.

GP advised staying on melatonin until counselling more established etc.

I can really sympathise with you OP

Please explain to your dh that shouting at her is like shouting at a veteran with ptsd when they are having a panic attack at fireworks.

it is her autonomous nervous system not her brain. Shouting will just further shock her nervous system

My dd became terrified of going to bed around age 10 but in her case she was worried she’d die in her sleep. Once she’d had that thought she couldn’t get it out of her head, but she knew it was “silly” so she wouldn’t tell me why.

I eventually got it out of her and I spent a lot of time explaining how sleep cycles work, and how they change as you age, and we talked about the brain chemistry that reminds you to wake up each day and how rare it is for people to die in their sleep (especially at age 10 yo!)

So don’t discount a disruptive thought at work here.

Also dd is now 15 and she has had problems sleeping after watching something scary on her phone or at a friend’s house.

Had a good chat with her tonight and it seems she is afraid of being alone in the night and being the only family member awake at night. This is progress, albeit I still don’t understand where it’s come from. Another thing I’ve thought is she had a bad cold over Christmas and is now saying her sense of smell has gone weird (things that used to smell nice now smell awful to her) so I’m wondering if maybe it was Covid she had, not a cold, and that this may somehow be connected. Food for thought.

I also spoke to her tutor today and understood what measures can be taken in school to support. Didn’t get round to phoning her GP but thank you to the person who suggested melatonin - I will raise this when I speak to them.

I appreciate all responses. Believe me I know DH shouldn’t have shouted, and I’m not condoning him, all I’m saying is I understood where it came from. Please no more comments on that, we both want to help our daughter and trying to take measures to do so.

I went through a phase of this when I was 11 and in year 6, really struggled to get to sleep and then got panicky about not getting enough sleep and being alone.

I'm 32 now and I still remember it so clearly and the disappointment with how my parents handled it😅they were annoyed at not having their evening any more and having to sit with me and kept trying all sorts of tactics to get me to fall asleep alone so they could go back downstairs. All I really wanted was to be allowed to sit up with them or sleep in their room or my sister's on the nights I was particularly worried. It was just a phase and I read somewhere afterwards that's it very common at this age but not sure where.

Basically maybe don't overanalyze it too much and just be with her and see if it passes after a few weeks. I do have my own kids now so do understand the sleep frustration but it will pass.

melatonin after a week or so of bad sleep is madness. Thats masking not fixing the problem and will just progress to longterm sleep problems.

We've had very similar. My dd 12 was scared of being awake at night, everyone being asleep and hearing something. Not sure if thus actually ever happened or not but it took a while to get to this answer- lots of anxiety & panic tears, desperate for us to stay with her. It was a gradually process to get her to sleep again ok. I slept in her room she knew she could wake us- sge was scared to get out of bed at night though. Apparently quite a common phase plus the nit being able to sleep & not getting enough sleep is really common- I remember worrying about that!

DD1 has had stages of really struggling with getting to sleep (ASD and anxiety).

Things that worked were valerian tea taken half an hour before bed. No screens at least 1 hour.before bed, preferably 2. Red light bulb night light as it didn't keep her awake like a blue light bulb, but gave some light at night so she wasn't scared. Audio books to listen to or chilled lofi music.

I find binaural beats, yoga Indra/guided meditation/guided sleep stories and sleepy history help me. My whole system was on edge after I had a very bad Covid infection and struggling with sleep was part of it. Breathing exercises and tapping (EFT) using an app also helped me calm my nervous system down. After fighting off the virus my whole system was heightened and felt like it was in fight or flight constantly so helping calm the nervous system in general helped with anxiety and sleep.

Shouting is just going to activate fight or flight and will not help calm her anxiety and improve her sleep. If your DH cannot calm his own nervous system he will not be able to help her calm hers so if he cannot get on board he needs to leave you to deal with it.

https://youtube.com/@sleeptube?si=PzsCp4BzTNfTeeSm

Also on the smell thing I lost my smell for 9 months due to Covid and did smell training which really helped me.

https://abscent.org.uk/learn-us/smell-training/

Hi, sleep disruptions and stress are so hard on the whole family - so sympathies. Although our path has been very different, DD is AuDHD with anxiety, we have had to lean into it and follow her lead. She has eventually moved out of our room and int her own, I am writing this whilst laying next to her - as every night she needs chat, wind down help (I brush her hair etc) and sleep then seems to (hopefully) come. This still isn’t ideal but it is mostly calmer and easier on all of us - and one day it will evolve again. We have had a horrid journey and I advise anyone to really listen to anxiety and the root cause can be hidden for so so long - so patience, love and security in huge helpings. It is exhausting though, I hope things become calmer.

On the bad cold and awful smell, that is a symptom of a cold causing a sinus infection. So I’d ring the GP sooner rather than later as only antibiotics can clear a sinus infection. A sinus infection can also cause insomnia due to affecting breathing while sleeping.

You’ve said the anxiety is likely caused by lack of sleep. And now the anxiety surrounding being unable to sleep is causing panic attacks and yet more insomnia.

OP you mentioned she’s been ill recently, so I’m just sharing this here (I posted it on another thread a couple of weeks ago about a child with sudden-onset OCD-type symptoms). PANS/PANDAS are post-viral inflammatory disorders that present as mental health conditions. It might be worth a look for you. This is a leaflet produced by a lobbying group that raises awareness of the conditions.