My 11 year old daughter says she wants to be a boy

[Idontunderstand3]

So I’ve got absolutely no one really to talk to about this.

Please be a bit gentle because I’m trying pretty hard.

Over the last 3 months since my daughter became friends with another child at her new secondary school (shes going into year 7) she’s changed.

This friend apparently went through a stage as identifying as a cat and now identifies as a boy but wasn’t born one.

My daughter’s never been a particularly girly girl.

She loved Harry Potter and then all of a sudden started saying that JK Rowling is a bigot and transphobe etc etc.

She cut her long hair short.

We had a long conversation about it and discussed why JK Rowling may have her views.

Then we moved house and she decided she wanted dinosaur’s as her theme in her bedroom.

Then she started choosing boys clothes.

Now I’ve always suspected she might be somewhat neurodiverse but as it hasn’t significantly impact her I didn’t pursue it. I’m not sure if that’s even relevant.

But I was getting the vibe that she was exploring boys things and it became more and more.

I even told her dad (we are divorced) about my suspicions a few nights ago… he poo poo’d it and said she’s just finding herself.

Last night my daughter told me that an old friend had been unkind to her on WhatsApp. She was particularly upset. Lots of crying.

It turns out that she’s told them all that she feels and identifies as a boy and they have taken the Micky out of her.

She’s blocked them all. She’s going to a secondary in a different town that they aren’t going to.

I’m really sad that she didn’t feel she could tell me - but could tell her whole school year… but I get it also because of my views.

I’ve told her it’s natural not to love your body when going through pubity because it’s hard. I told her I felt awkward for a long time. I’ve told her I love her and I support her even if I don’t understand really. That I love and support her no matter what she chooses.

I fundamentally don’t believe you can change your sex. I do believe you can choose your gender. We’ve had this conversation before which is probably why she never said anything to me.

And today we’ve been sorting out clothes. She’s binned virtually all of the more girly ones.

I’m in the garden having a bit of a cry because I don’t want to make this about me. But I don’t know what to do with all these feelings I’m having. I’m also hormonal which doesn’t help.

I don’t have a partner to talk to. Her dad’s pretty useless with emotions and I don’t have many friends.

Her dad was emotionally abusive. I lost myself for a long time. I can’t help but feel that she’s looked at me and decided she doesn’t want to be anything like me.

I can’t help but feel like I’ve failed as a role model.

I would never ever express any of this to her. Ever.

What on earth do I do?
I’m having counselling because of the after effects of my terrible marriage but because I’m starting a new job I can’t see my counsellor till the end of September.

Should I get her counselling?

I have an 11 YO DD of my own. I'd be asking what she thinks boys can do that she can't do as a girl, and take it from there.

Short hair and trousers? Nothing stopping her from that.
Different name? Easy to change.
Certain clubs/activities? Girls can do them too.
Prefers 'boyish' things and dislikes 'girly' things? She can like or dislike what she wants, 'boyish' and 'girly' is just stereotyping.
Be seen as special? She's already uniquely her, the only one there will ever be.
Be liked more by her new friend? That's needs a discussion about dysfunctional relationships.
Get everyone to use her chosen pronouns and treat her differently? Impossible - you can't control other people, and trying to force it will end badly.
Avoid female puberty? Impossible - she is a female and it's going to happen.

I'd also be making her read JK Rowlings essay and asking her what she disagrees with and where the evidence of transphobia and bigotry is. Then we'd be having a discussion about making sure she has all the facts before throwing serious accusations around.

Disrupt her feed. If she's got any accounts like YouTube etc then delete the email it's linked to and start again. Delete cookies. If she has insta then go onto her account and follow people to give her a broader world view.

It seems you're I'll informed, no one does surgery on under 18 year olds, it's almost impossible to get puberty blockers in the UK, despite them being the best treatment for young people who have been trans for many years before puberty.

In the OPs case I'd just see how it plays out. If it's a phase it'll fade quite quickly

I believe parents should be careful about unsupervised online time, we have devices and TV downstairs in the living room. We encourage healthy food, moving our bodies daily, time for rest and work and play.

I always find it peculiar that people on Mumsnet believe that children don't know their own minds and that somehow children and young people are being tricked Into being trans. Yet we seem totally happy to let young children declare their have a boyfriend or girlfriend from very young ages.

Keep telling her the truth. She needs someone who is consistently honest with her.

'You want to be a boy? I can understand that, it can be tough being a girl, especially as you grow up. You can be a tomboy type of girl though - if you like wearing trousers or prefer a shorter haircut - but you can try different hairstyles, different clothing styles and see what suits you best'

Never tell her she can be an actual boy or man, or can change sex because that is lying to her and plenty of other people are doing that already.

Dont let her self-indulge on identity, in any way:

1. Be blasé about it, treat it like a non-issue.
2. Get her off social media by keeping her busy.
3. Keep her busy- get her out and about, swimming, exercise, cycling, keep her busy. Don’t go clothes/fashion shopping as that is self indulgence again.
4. Get her around family more, cousins etc, who will use her actual name.
5. Play some music, rock etc so she sings along, listens to those words etc and it stops to her for some extent from self absorption.

Its a long game of 6months possibly more, but if you are consistent it has a very strong chance of working.

I'm really glad to see other messages already from adults who also experienced wanting to be a boy at that age, or even thinking they should be a boy.

As PP have said, until very recently this just wouldn't have been an issue. Plenty of 11 year olds have short hair, wear "boy" clothes, do STEM and sport activities that are mainly attended by boys and generally fit in with the boyish crowd. Back in the 80s/90s we were tom-boys. I desperately wanted to be a boy when I was 11. I didn't want boobs, I didn't want my period, I didn't want to be held back by sexism and misogyny.

Fortunately there weren't any internet fora telling me I was a boy, or I was trans, or that I could magically be a boy if I wanted to. Instead I had parents that supported my academic interests, supported my sport choices, bought the clothes I liked and taught me to see that I was a unique and brilliant person that was not limited by my sex.

I now work in a very male-dominated field in a highly technical job. I'm definitely not "girly" but I'm completely at peace with being a woman and love that I've given birth to DC, nurtured them as a mother, and been a STEM ambassador to encourage girls to stick with science and maths.

Your job as a parent isn't to validate every whim.or bad choice your teen or tween makes. It's to guide them through the difficulties growing up, particularly puberty, and help them to accept and grow into who they are. And that means accepting that if you're born female, you will always be a girl/woman. And that's not a bad thing to be, nor does it have to limit you.

Of course, life might still have been easier for me had I been born male given my interests. But I wasn't and I never will be. Accepting that was transformative, and has made me much happier. I stopped fighting against it and wishing life were different, and got on with being the best version of myself that I could be.

I would also add that you should read the Cass Report in full. Be wary of anyone who tells you that interventions (e.g. puberty blockers, social transition etc) lead to good outcomes. The data is very weak and the research is generally very poor and one sided - it only looks at people who go through with treatment, but not the much larger population of people who had issues with their gender but which were resolved without any transition or treatment.

And definitely cut off social media, internet access etc and start again. Getting back in control of the algorithm! 11 is too young to have social media access anyway.

I never mentioned surgery or that people are tricked into being trans. My situation is that when I was 10/11 I desperately wanted to be a boy, I felt so hard done by having been born a girl. I was a tomboy, I preferred all the "boy things", I was absolutely terrified of puberty and periods and everything women have to go through, so I desperately wished I was a boy instead. If I was that child now in today's world I would probably decide to identify as a boy and probably dive head first into changing my name, pronouns and gender but that wasn't really a thing then and I didnt even know it was an option. Turns out it completely was just a phase, and after a year or so I suddenly had no interest in being a boy anymore and I am glad that I was born a girl. I 100% believe that had I been allowed to change my name, pronouns and entire identity around being a boy when I grew out of it I would have felt like I am in too deep and can't go back. Childrens minds at 11 are not developed enough yet to be making such huge decisions. Don't get me wrong I believe for some people it isn't a phase and that transgender is a real thing, but no where near the level of popularity that it is today especially for children that age.

What's your thoughts on the friend who identified as a cat? Did they know their own mind and were they truly a misunderstood cat at heart? And by the sounds of it in the OP the child doesn't identify as a cat anymore so that appears to have been a phase

And FWIW, I don't think children that age should be encouraged to have boyfriends/girlfriends that young either. Children should just be children and shouldn't be worrying about all these things yet.

I think you should just listen to her and not push your views on her.
"I think I would be happier as a boy"
"Oh that's really interesting - what makes you think that?"
It could be anything.... "I prefer "boy" activities like mountain biking". "Great, sounds fun, let's get you lessons". "I think I'd be happier if I was a boy". "What makes you unhappy as a girl and why do you think that would be different as a boy"?

Just be curious. She's finding herself in a world where gender identity is being questioned by her peer group. I think it's normal for her to explore.
By listening and not judging you're teaching her she can come to you and she's safe to open up... And you're teaching her that her feelings matter. Both so important.

Hey, transmasculine person here, I wanted to add my input.
You cannot choose to be trans. It is something you discover over time. This isn't a phase, however she could be wrong, and could be non-binary, or could just think shes trans but shes not. She's finding herself. What I would do is support her. Ask what name she prefers. If she doesn't have another name, help her find one. Ask if she wants you to use different pronouns.
Another thing I would like to add is that gender and sex are 2 different things. Sex are things like chromosomes and hormones. Gender is the gender identity that you identify as. For example, you identify as a woman because that is how you feel your gender is. Your daughter, or son, identifies as a boy because, at this moment in time, that is how you child's gender feels to her. Let her, or him, know that you support them. Even if they aren't actually trans, or are another gender, such as non-binary
feel free to do with you want with this

Your daughter "being a boy" is literally impossible.

What she's discovering, is in fact, her personality. and is finding that her personality doesn't align with a stereotypical "girly girl" (most girls don't to be fair, my DD isn't a pink dolly kind of girl)

How "girly" we are is on a sliding scale. Some will be right at that 100%, some will be at 0% (looking at you my beer swilling, footy shirt wearing, rude joke telling, motorbike riding same sex partnered mate ! 😁)

Many of us will fall somewhere between the two "girliness" Extremes.

But you know what we all have in common ? We're all "girls" (i.e women, females) it's just before.... Nobody ever thought about it or cared much for whether their personality rendered what's between their legs as "wrong".

It sounds like you are doing all the right things and making the neurodivergent connection (the only trans kids that I have known have also had ASD). Whilst other girls are starting to get into fashion, appearance and boys, your DC has found solice and a soul mate in an ND child who would like to be a boy. It may well be a phase, it may not. Stay sympathetic and stay close. If you pee her off, she'll close in on herself and you'll lose any access/influence you have. If she wants to start the new school as trans, ring the SENCO or safeguarding lead and ask their advice about your daughter starting the school in a boy's or androgenous uniform, using different pronouns and a new name. Take it one step at a time and see if the school's learning mentors can have regular sessions with her (or art therapists or whatever they offer) to help her mental health.

My DS always wanted to be a girl at primary school because all his friends were girls. Age 23, he has a beard. His friends are still mainly girls, but he is comfortable in his skin as a gay male. I don't think primary school children really understand the concept of being 'somewhere in the middle' of the boy/girl stereotypes and so cling to the idea of being the opposite gender because they don't identify with their own. As they mature, they realise that you can carve your own path and be whatever.

Firstly, don't panic. This is still your child and they need you.
Listen first.
Ask them to explain how they feel to you.
Her sex is unchangeable but growing up a girl can be hard. Exploring gender isn't unusual for this age group, it may be hand in hand with exploring sexuality but this can be a scary thing for various reasons.
You don't need to over play explaining - keep doing all the normal things you do together. Be her safe place.
But, I would monitor her online use. Exploring for information can take teens to some places meant for adults. Her self esteem has probably taken a bit of a beating with being ridiculed, I would try and help with that.
My DD found this age very hard going. She wasn't at all happy with how her body changed or getting attention from boys. She lopped off her hair and dressed in a highly androgynous way (looked very cool) thought she might be gay. She's also ASD.
Roll on several years. She's comfortable with her body and looks and has decided to grow her hair out. A bit. She's much happier in herself but needed to go through this to come out the other side. For some kids it's not a phase, but for others it's part of growing up.
I was worried about her sometimes but we kept open and respectful dialogue going.

Tough one. Its obviously a social contagion, unfortunately a lot of professional adults are driving it so its beyond peer pressure.
Could say take her out of school altogether, unplug the internet and emigrate to another country, just how to do that in all practicality

The Bayswater Support Group is a group for parents whose kids identify as trans - they might be able to help.

www.bayswatersupport.org.uk/

Try and listen to the feeling behind what she’s saying. Is she saying she wants to be a boy because she doesn’t fit in with the girls at school?

This is great advice.

There is definitely an element of social contagion. When DD was in Year 7 and Year 8 only 2 out of her friendship group of around 10 girls did not identify as gay, bi or trans?! It is all very odd and social media drives it. I mean they are only 11, 12 and 13 and a lot haven't even reached puberty so why are they labelling themselves so early?

I spoke to my DD a little bit but I started that in primary school because I didn't agree with the curriculum and knew this would be a problem so I told my DD that it was OK to like boys or girls things as they are just things and are neither one or the other etc but you cannot change the body you were born into and you shouldn't want to as it is special etc.

Anyway DD cannot understand how or why all her DFs are like this they have a whatsapp group about hating JK Rowling etc. I would remove all social media and keep her off tech as much as possible. My DD has a brick phone. I have no problem if my DD turns out to be gay etc obviously but have no time for this movement that is brainwashing our young DC.

I also explained to DD that JK Rowling has done a brave thing in protecting women and women's spaces and explained the counter-argument. I think the problem is that they only read what's fed to them by algorithms online so you either have to remove tech for a while or give her the other side to understand the full picture.

Even if she wants to have her breasts removed?

yes. be supportive. maybe she wont want to in the future, maybe she will, again, be supportive

For what it's worth, when I was 11, I wanted to be a boy, too. It had nothing to do with my body or sex (I had a very sheltered upbringing so didn't even know what that was about, to be honest). No, the reason was simply that gender sterotypes did not fit me particularly well. Thankfully I was allowed to be a tomboy. I feel really sorry for children today.

This is a recurring theme unfortunately.
Young autistic teens are very vulnerable to this kind of on-line grooming and may even be targetted by adult males for this reason. Predators always go after the easiest prey they can find.

OP needs to monitor the internet and restrict access to certain sites (buy software to do this if necessary).

I would encourage her daughter to have other friends over too - if the other girl is being transed by someone in her own family, it will affect OP's daughter too.

I fundamentally don’t believe you can change your sex. I do believe you can choose your gender.

Please don't tell her she can choose her gender. What does that even mean? That she can call herself a boy and and wear 'boys' clothes but she still has to use the girls toilets and changing rooms? That she will always be female because humans can't change sex?

What on earth are you telling her?

You cannot chose to be trans because there is no such thing.

It's a meaningless catch-all label, nothing more.

Young girls have absolutely nothing in common with middle-age heterosexual men with a porn addiction. They are being used by these men as a shield so that they can indulge their fetish in public and so that they can invade women only spaces.

Non-binary is just a new word for Tomboy.
Tomboys are just girls who reject regressive stereotypes of how girls should dress or behave or what interests they should have.

Gender identity is just another word for personality.
Everyone figures out their personality growing up.