DD wants to be non binary, age 12

[Y0gamummy]

My DD (just turned 12) has told me that she's not happy being a girl and wants to be gender neutral/non binary. In her mind this should involve a new name and using 'they' pronouns. I've been caught completely off guard and am not sure I'm striking the right balance between keeping open communication and keeping this sensible. I know she has been struggling with puberty and also that she feels like an outsider sometimes amidst other more girly girls in her class so I feel that this is related. My initial response was to say that there are a million different ways to be a girl and it's her choice how she embodies that. I did say that I thought the pronouns and labels were unnecessary while she's so young and figuring out who she is, and that there were plenty of other ways to be more gender neutral. She has now asked me what I think those ways are and I'm a bit stumped. She dresses exactly as she pleases and that's pretty neutral and she recently had her hair cut short. She is regularly mistaken for a boy now with the short haircut which makes me feel a little sad if I'm honest and confused as to how that is more neutral. She broke her phone a few weeks ago so I've not been able to check it but her search history on laptop shows this to be very recent and mostly searching for info from sources like NHS. I guess I'm concerned that she will go down a rabbit hole with this and then me up persuaded that she needs a label just because she doesn't want to wear make up or talk about boys? That possibly shows my own naivety (judgement?) re this topic. Any tips on being supportive and non judgemental but at same time not encouraging her to make big identity decisions when she's only 12 and still figuring everything out? I'm gutted to think she's unhappy in herself and feel out my depth.

I would call her they/them if this is what she wants to be called. It may be a phase or it may not - at the end of the day we should respect our children’s choices. I know when I was young the more my mum fought me on things the more my mind became set. Sometimes things end up being hormones, peer influence or dealing with trauma which could be the case if they feel isolated - other times it is genuinely how they feel - they are still growing and learning so it’s best to just go with it for now and see how it turns out. Either way we all have autonomy in life and we all want to feel that people around us trust us to make decisions about ourselves. I have known a few people who said they were trans or non binary in their teens and changed their minds as adults but I have known much more who have transitioned, stayed non binary etc… One person I knew who transitioned told me that in her early teens when she told her parents they respected her wishes but got her counselling and got her to hold off on big decisions until she was an adult. She was 19/20 when I met her and had started taking hormones. She was an incredibly lovely and inspiring person in a happy committed relationship and ended up in a fantastic career - I believe her parents level headed response really helped shape her and gave her the room to grow and discover who she was.

On the flip side I had a friend in Uni who was gay and from a conservative family who were homophobic - he told me in first year he wished he could be cured, he said he slept with some women to cure himself but hated it and hated himself. He said a lot of really messed up things but then after a few months he seemed to be at peace with it and started dating men for the rest of Uni. A few years after we graduated I bumped into him in an airport - he had married a woman and got a very important job, ten years after that I heard about him again, he killed himself.

If I was in your shoes and I was finding it hard to process my child's decision I would get counselling for both of us to make sure there is no present or future trauma!

I will not fall for the line would you rather have a trans child or a dead child. My child will be supported on every level and when she is older I will support whatever she wants but in the mean time I will not allow teachers and doctors to tell her she is in the wrong body bevause that is plain fucked up. As an adult with a mature brain we need to use it instead of going along with this bat shit crazy theme.

Geez I wonder how typical this is. I’m trying to get in early with dd and always say you’re a girl and that can’t change.

My dd was told the same tried to get her into a catholic high school to avoid this but seems there is no escape.

I’d ring the school for a chat about how they manage their pupils questioning their gender identity. Then I’d say that as a family we were gender critical, which is a protected belief, with the same legal protections as religion. They are to call her by her birth name, and use her correct pronouns. That covers what you can do outside of the school. At I kept reinforcing the immutable fact of my DDs biological sex, and pointed out that many women would sorely love to opt periods, and being objectified etc, especially as a young girl. But alas you can’t. I also talked about the stark reality of medical transition. I let my DD wear her hair however she choose (a mullet at one point!) and wear whatever clothing she wanted. I gave her a lot of freedom outside of the home, and praised her all the time. I’d (and still do) walk past her room, bellowing affirmations “anything you put your mind to you do well at! You’re the most amazing daughter a mother could want! You’re such good company to be around!” etc, etc. I kept things light hearted wherever possible, even when she sobbed at eleven years old that she “was a man! I just KNOW I’m a man!” I’m smiling as I type this because it’s so clearly absurd. Challenging at the time though. Oh and this is KEY - she had limited internet access, no you tube and just a dumb phone. My DH just told her not to be so bloody daft. Luckily it was just another challenging parenting stage, we’re now on the other side of.

This is really good to hear. My daughter has just cut her own hair! Seen nothing like it. She has the most beautiful face and it’s like she is purposely trying to not look nice. She doesn’t even want her braces off. I honestly believe she hated any attention she got from growing breasts she was the first in her year.

It's such a minefield. If it was my daughter I'd probably see if I could get her a counsellor. I honestly wouldn't know how to be supportive and give her advice. You hear of people that have changed their sex two, three or four times and have regretted it or did something without knowing all the side effects or thinking it through. At least if you get her help it would be from someone who knows a lot more than us.

Unfortunately not. Many counsellors and even NHS staff are ‘captured’ by ideology as are some teachers.

Mine is on the waiting list but you have to really vet them to make sure they’re of sound mind themselves.

When DD was age 13, we went through similar. She had found friendships hard at primary and was bullied and the friends she had made at secondary were also doing the whole gender questioning. Some had trauma backgrounds - she related to this from her bullying feelings. She was just looking to ‘belong’. She talked about breast surgery. I was worried for her mental health and took her to CAMHS - she was diagnosed autistic and the support group provided was very affirming in transitioning.

I kept discussion open but did not tell my DD that her feelings were wrong. I did tell her that I felt gender and sex were not the same, that gender stereotypes were harmful as they are limiting and she could be whatever she wanted to be but her biology would always be female. She’s however wanted a label to try and understand herself - non binary seemed to fit at that time.

She’s now a young adult and no longer sees herself as non-binary and has gone back to her birth name. It needed to be something she worked through and accepted for herself, ‘feel’ it for herself, not me dictate to her.

So my advice is discuss her feelings, ask her to clarify, but not argue as for many teens they’ll just stick their heels in and double down (after all, what do WE know etc!). To me it’s just teens working out who they are, how they fit in, but it’s been hijacked by others advocating medical harm for their own reasons/ideology. DD is now very much questioning how some adults are effectively grooming (this is how it felt to her) rather than just listening to teens and supporting them to make their OWN judgement and is vehemently against young people receiving medical intervention at a young age.

I may go private yet with it, I think I have found one that is very neutral but very expensive. No expenses can be spared when it comes to this but I was made redundant recently which turned out to be blessing because I have spend all summer getting out with her encouraging her to hang out with friends locally, otherwise she would have to be with my mother and she is getting too old to be bothered with doing lots. She is not quite 12 so wouldn’t leave her all day alone.

Her dad who I don’t particularly get on with has pulled his socks up too it seems to be the only thing we have ever agreed upon. So he’s took her everywhere and keeps dropping things in nonchalant manner.

That is so encouraging to hear.

It is a catch 22. they don't want to be female so use pronouns etc to avoid their 'gender' and end up signing up to conforming to gender stereotypes.

Get her to watch run like a girl clip - it is quite good. And restrict internet access.

Point out the women football team is massively more successful than the mens's despite the fact they have only 'been allowed' to play for the last 50 years.

What about a book about some amazing women who did things that traditionally men did. I’m thinking Amelia Earheart, Frida Kahlo If you google trail blazing women there are some examples.
Id watch carefully her Internet usage.

Two of my dds went through this same phase at similar age.
We sat and talked about why they think this and how it effects them and so on.
And I explained that the big problem is for a long time we have the girls like pink boys like blue and that applies to everything from clothing to cars to jobs and so on. We are told which box we should fit in and what we should like.
But really we all like bits from each box. And that doesnt mean you want to be a boy. It just means society should have stopped along time ago trying to fit people in certain boxes.
Thankfully they dont have social media so we dont have that influence. And they have not mentioned it since.
I also try to teach them alot about positive female role models from all different backgrounds and areas . And hope they will be proud to be women when they are adults.
Saying all this pretty much all of my friends with children have atleast one trans/non binary child .

Mine isn’t allowed any social media, however i let her play Roblox when she was younger and that’s apparently really bad but I was she used to sit with me playing it i was clueless.

This is almost unofficial diagnostics for autism and occasionally ADHD. Keep her offline and especially away from TikTok, Snapchat and Discord (if she's into gaming).

I’m not sure what being non-binary and gender neutral really means at age 12. I wouldn’t go along with full social transition at school - I’d agree to call dd by a new nn but not change anything officially until she is 16. Does she have a ridiculously feminine first name (like Maisie or Poppy or something)?

I’d probably just avoid using “they” pronouns.

finally tell dd you’re happy to support her as she figures out her identity but that’s a process that takes many years and believe it or not lots and lots of people of al generations have had people don’t fit the perfect Barbie and Ken cookie cutter shape.

The concept of a gender (which is essentially your personality and lifestyle choices) is based on sex stereotypes.

She is a girl, she will have periods, she is a she.

She can like or dislike any thing she chooses, choose to wear what she likes within school uniform parameters obviously, like whatever hobbies she wants, cut her hair how she wants, make any choice she likes for future career, fancy boys or fancy girls or fancy no one.

But she is still a she.

I wouldnt use the word gender much, we have lost the use of the word sex and its causing a lot of problems.

Yes tik tok is really bad.

And agree about the unofficial diagnosis. My dd is definitely high functioning so she flew through school too of her class until the hormones kicked in then it became very apparent. It angers me when I see people accuse these kids of being attention seekers etc. I don’t believe that I believe they have vulnerable aspects which have been exploited and I cannot wait for all the law suits to kick in and this whole thing to collapse.

You have to be really careful choosing a counsellor too. Some of them are totally on board with Gender Identity and transitioning children. I think James Esses set up a register of safe counselling services.

https://www.thoughtfultherapists.org/find-a-therapist

I agree with the first paragraph of this.

My dc4 is nb. Came out as gay at 9 - totally a non shocker. Then around 11 said they were nb. We discussed name changes but decided it could wait. Discussed pronouns and they’re happy with he/him/they/them. Things like puberty blockers have never come up but he’ll regularly wear makeup and has long hair etc. Often wears fairly feminine clothing as well as masculine. It’s been a windy road with a few bumps but on the whole it’s been a non thing really.

oh, dc is 14 now.

That’s more or less what I said! Thanked her for telling me, didn’t make a big thing of it.
Letting her have her hair as wants and dress as she wants (which is actually what we all looked like in the 90s). I would have a massive problem if she wanted to do anything irreversible to her body but as it is, I want to give her space to try out different identities without feeling like she has to have a battle and get entrenched in anything.