DD wants to be non binary, age 12

[Y0gamummy]

My DD (just turned 12) has told me that she's not happy being a girl and wants to be gender neutral/non binary. In her mind this should involve a new name and using 'they' pronouns. I've been caught completely off guard and am not sure I'm striking the right balance between keeping open communication and keeping this sensible. I know she has been struggling with puberty and also that she feels like an outsider sometimes amidst other more girly girls in her class so I feel that this is related. My initial response was to say that there are a million different ways to be a girl and it's her choice how she embodies that. I did say that I thought the pronouns and labels were unnecessary while she's so young and figuring out who she is, and that there were plenty of other ways to be more gender neutral. She has now asked me what I think those ways are and I'm a bit stumped. She dresses exactly as she pleases and that's pretty neutral and she recently had her hair cut short. She is regularly mistaken for a boy now with the short haircut which makes me feel a little sad if I'm honest and confused as to how that is more neutral. She broke her phone a few weeks ago so I've not been able to check it but her search history on laptop shows this to be very recent and mostly searching for info from sources like NHS. I guess I'm concerned that she will go down a rabbit hole with this and then me up persuaded that she needs a label just because she doesn't want to wear make up or talk about boys? That possibly shows my own naivety (judgement?) re this topic. Any tips on being supportive and non judgemental but at same time not encouraging her to make big identity decisions when she's only 12 and still figuring everything out? I'm gutted to think she's unhappy in herself and feel out my depth.

I think i would say being a girl means many things, that woman and girls all look very different but at the end of the day they are still woman and girls. I would say pronouns are just names which don't mean anything, they are labels and we don't need labels to tell us who we are.

Does she have new friends who are influencing her?

Why does she want to be gender neutral - does she fully understand it? At 12 i wouldn't think so.

You need to find out where all this has come from otherwise you are blind as to how to steer the conversation.

No. No. No.

I am in a pretty similar situation. Do you think she could possibly have autism? Since puberty my DD freaked out and hates the changes of puberty so shes cut her hair saying she wants to be a boy. I have read a lot into this and the cass review says it can be damaging to let them change their name as it could lead to a path they otherwise could possibly just turn away from once the challenges of puberty.

i have informed her new school that they must use her birth name. It’s a case of watch and wait and help them with any distress. For example i put my dd on the pill bevause periods were causing so much distress. I did join Bayswater group but had to leave bevause the children were much older mainly and it was getting me down. One thing is you have time on your side and the tide is now turning on what school etc can and can’t do. For now personally I’d say dress how you want etc but you are not allowed to change your name until 16. Oh and try to keep your child out pshe lessons i do no think they’re helpful. A few months ago i was up a height but feel better now.

Definitely not. Mermaids for one are under investigation

They are dangerous, grooming organisations.
Safe schools alliance, Bayswater Support are much better.

OP, you need to find out what she is looking at online. Also, you need to urgently find out what is being taught in school around relationships education etc. Many schools outsource this part of the curriculum and some of it is shocking.

Because they reinforce the idea that if you're young child decides they want to be a different gender, you should wholly support them, be happy to change their name, pronouns and shouldn't question anything
Children at the age of 12 are just hitting puberty and haven't got a full sense of self yet. If a child states they no longer identify with their sex, it should start with a conversation to why they feel this way rather than jumping straight into accepting that's a informed decision by the child.
It may just be they don't understand that stereotypes are not something to confirm to, it is not a case of you aren't girly enough to be a girl. You are going to have periods, breasts, at risk of pregnancy etc as a girl. Having male stereotype clothes/interests, does not make you male or gender neutral. You are still female. You should be able to have these conversations with your child, and organisation like mermaids would consider this approach as an act of violence practically against your child.
These organisations also tend to encourage hormones being taken by young people that lead to them not going through normal puberty and possibly causing irreversible changes to their bodies that they would regret later

You cannot trust the NHS either. They are completely captured by Gender Ideology.

I agree the doctor said to me there’s no harm in social transition. I sent my dd out and I said have you read the cass review. She hadn’t unbelievable. You’ve just got to navigate this on your own bevause im bewildered by the stupidity of schools and doctors. I thought these were intelligent people.

It is taught in mainstream pshe lessons from juniors and in secondary school.

Safeguarding and a lack of contact with reality.

A different issue entirely but I still remember an organisation ran a pshe session when I was in school about 18 years ago, they were clearly anti abortion and brought in for sex education. It was horrendous watching their biased views being passed as 'education' I actually knew someone in that class who has been through an abortion at that point and thought how horrible it must have been sitting through that class. Organisations shouldn't be allowed in schools with their damaging biased views including mermaids etc.

Slightly different lens on this.

Are you sure she is not being bullied at school? My daughter was on the end of some endless bullying and negative comments from girls at that age [and some boys encouraged by the girls] because she had no interest in make-up, having a boyfriend, the same tv programmes etc etc. She was called all sorts including being a Furry because she ignored them and went her own way. At that age [and now for that matter] she was more interested in random stuff like survival skills, super practical clothing and zero interest in having a skin regime.

She was utterly miserable though. She got through it and eventually found her own kindred spirits towards the end of Yr 8. I could entirely see how a child might find comfort in giving themselves a label and a way to tell them to do one.

So my advice would be to seek out female role models in non traditional areas to inspire her. So here's my starter for ten. I recently attended a talk by her on international women's day and she was both inspiring and utterly hilarious.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jo_Salter
https://josalter.com
There are a few videos of her on YouTube, I don't know if she will come and talk to schools for free but you might find she supports RAF schools events?

Tell her she's too young and you will talk about it when she is 16. At 12 this is not a discussion, it's a parental decision and the decision is no. And look at her social media to see where she is getting this crap!

OP if you go on the Feminism Sex and Gender board people can point you to helpful sources of advice and information. People on that board are extremely knowledgeable.

Personally, I think everyone at their heart just feels like a living being - nothing to do with either sex. Does she realise that?

Which year does it start and what kind of thing? Do you mean gender ideology

I would facilitate her participating in some sport and then that can be “her thing” rather than ruminating on how she is feeling. She needs to stay off screens and enjoy just being herself rather than reflecting on who she is. She is a girl and how she feels is how girls feel and that is that. Girls can have short hair. I find it so bizarre that so few younger girls have short hair. She doesn’t have to wear make-up and do her nails. They are not female things, they have been imposed on us and we can chose to adopt them or not. Maybe talking about that and how she may have to fight for her place in the world rather than giving herself a label and change who she is to fit in.

I agree too. My daughter was pushed out by the girls in year 5 because she didn’t want to talk about make up and skin care. She is interested in bands etc. she ended up hanging out with the boys then lo and behold after a pshe class she cried to her teacher and said she does not want to be a girl.

I find it crazy too that a bunch of middle aged men with thier kinks managed to get the social pull that they did and our schools have allowed it to flourish. Keeping them offline helps but it’s everywhere a boy she was hanging out with told her his sister is now a boy. It makes me so furious

This. Are they saying that girls shouldn't have short hair? How preposterous and the exact kind of gender stereotypes that should be avoided in dealing with a child like this.

This. She may have friends with boyfriends and doesn't want to be a sexual object in that way so she's opting out. Leave it a few years and she will most likely change her mind and if she doesn't it's not the end of the world.

Hi OP. I know this isn't what you asked, but this article has stayed with me and you may want to reread it if you find your resolve is faltering. www.transgendertrend.com/childhood-social-transition/

@EasternStandard depends on the school but mine were being taught that there were girls who were born with boy bodies and vice versa in around y4 Y5 at a catholic school. They are now y9 and y11. The pshe was provided by an external company as is most sex Ed pshe.

I would say to her that a lot of girls find the teenage years tricky because there are so many changes. But calling yourself non binary isn't going to stop or change any of those things from happening so it's better to try and get help to navigate your way through them rather than try to pretend they're not happening to you and that you're not a girl.

Then break it down with some discussions of exactly what she's struggling with and ways to try and make each thing a little easier. Does she have period pants? Tried a moon cup? Have sports bras if she hates proper bras, etc etc

Is she into sports or anything else - I'd try to get her quite involved and busy with some hobbies so that she's has other things to concentrate on. Would she be more comfortable with a nickname, that's a kind of compromise. I would not change pronouns though but be kind about it, explaining that she'll still be a she no matter what pronouns she uses.

Goodluck, hopefully things will get easier for her soon.

In the ‘lots of ways to be a girl’ bracket.

There’s the Ellen McArthur way. Theres the England women’s rugby team way. Theres the England football team way. Theres the fbi agent in Miss Congentiality way. Theres the Pink way (the pop star). Theres all the various spice girls way. Theres the Taylor swift way. Theres the Jacinda Arderne way. Theres the Nicola sturgeon way. Theres the Margaret thatcher way.

That’s a pretty broad range and might make for some good talking points.

On the name change front. It’s rife at that age and always has been. Theodore’s decide they need to be T. James’s decide they’re Jimmy. Elizabeth’s become Lily. Jaqueline’s become Jac. Middle names or surnames get used as main name. It’s a control and autonomy thing. Sticking with the formal name is ….. but sure you can call
yourself something you like may work well.

Yeah try to spend quite a bit of time with her it’s hard with busy lives etc but I have drove for hours with my daughter listening to her favourite bands which happen to be some of mine and we really bond over this because mine was completely pulling away.

If you want any hope of reconciling your daughter to her female body, do not contact any of the above organisations. They basically exist to advocate for puberty blockers, binding and surgery. If you want real help for yourself and your daughter try the Bayswater Group. Above all, do not let your child change her name or pronouns. Support her gender-nonconforming, but with the proviso that though there are myriad ways to be a girl and a woman, that sex is binary and immutable. Best of luck, it cannot be easy.