How do I encourage humility in 10yo DD without harming self esteem?

[Travelsweat]

She is vain. It sounds horrible, but it’s true. She is constantly saying things like, “I’m so glad I’m beautiful” and “I’m so glad I don’t have chubby fingers like some of the other kids in my class” and “My hair is so nice, I’m really proud of it.” She doesn’t have a phone and personal appearance is not really much of a topic of discussion at home. We don’t talk about other people in terms of their looks. I have personal experience of how destructive it can be to be raised by someone who puts a lot of value on looks, so whilst we don’t completely avoid complimenting appearance, we try to praise other traits like kindness, hard work, and empathy more than appearance. The only thing I can think is that she is one of the older girls in her year, and many of her peers (according to her) tell her she is pretty all the time. She is also a bit of a trend setter; for example, after we bought her winter coat, 3 other girls in her class went out and bought the same or similar. I think all of the peer affirmation has maybe gone to her head.

Now, as her mother, I also think she is a pretty girl, but I worry for her that she is beginning to think that her value as a person is mainly tied to her appearance. I also worry that she’ll put that value system on other people. I don’t want to raise a Regina George. She has so much more to offer the world than just her looks, as do her friends.

How do I gently encourage some humility whilst not harming her self esteem, which I suspect is actually quite fragile underneath the bravado? I am really glad she feels beautiful when so many do not at that age, but I don’t want to raise the kind of person who places all of her value (or the value of others) on it.

Help!

Do you compliment her achievements rather than her innate character traits? Does she have any hobbies that could give her a sense of achievement and self esteem? I feel like that could be helpful and give her something to focus on other than her appearance.

It's their age. She'll grow out of it. My daughter walks around calling herself 'big brain' and 'genius' ..... I always say ' and don't forget so modest' when she starts 😂

To be honest I'd just say something bland each time and ignore and keep role modelling its not the be all and end all. As long as she isn't being horrible to others ignore it. She's finding out who she is and will mature. I wouldn't give head space to it .

She plays violin and tennis and also does gymnastics. She is quite good at all three but especially talented on the violin, which I think she knows as she gets a lot of affirmation from her teacher and also from us. She is incredibly hard on herself with it, though. We try not to put too much pressure on her, but I think she is a bit of a driven perfectionist by nature and has a strong internal motivation to be the very best.

I would very gently tell her that it’s wonderful that she is so confident, happy with her skills etc but that it may sound rather boastful and make others feel a little bad if they have fat fingers or whatever.

The risk is that she will be ‘brought down a rung or two’ at school and that could be really hurtful for her, or find herself in a situation when someone gets really offended and you know how kids can be…

I was the kid who always thought o was too skinny/ugly/stupid, so I admire her self belief!

As long as she isn't being horrible to others ignore it.

The problem with girls of this age - year 6.7.8 - is that it can very quickly turn into being horrible to others. And, as a parent, you generally don’t know what goes on at school. If OP has the sense that this isn’t good, she’s right to address it. Gently and in a positive way. One thing I came to realise is that “pretty” isn’t always a lifelong thing. The beautiful toddler can be an average teen. The beautiful teen can be an average adult. And the unattractive teen can blossom into a beautiful woman. I’d talk gently to her around that - and how who you are is what makes you an “attractive person”, rather than just what you look like.

Actually, it's not her age. I don't know many 10 year old girls who walk around telling everyone how gorgeous they are.

Does she have relatives who go on about her beauty and talent or something?

Sounds quite bizarre.

I would tell her that modesty is a good trait to have.

there’s a fine line between confidence and arrogance.
I used to jokingly say I was beautiful at that age. My mum used to just say “and so modest.”
But the difference is that I’m ugly.

This is basically what we’ve been telling her. She says she would never ever say these things to her friends, but I told her that even if she doesn’t say this kind of stuff out loud, people can pick up on it.

I would just really love for her to focus on something a bit less… well, shallow.

My ten year old (son) is very aware of looks and having the ‘right’ thing for school eg pens, jacket etc and we tell him to stop the silly nonsense.
he doesn’t put down others for not having them though. He just wants them for himself. When your daughter says the other girls have fat fingers I would tell her off to be honest. One chance to just listen and the next time she does it I would take off a bit of screen time or whatever. A little bit of discipline wouldn’t do her harm. You sound like an amazing mum.

I hope that isn’t harsh reading back ( but these things can escalate)

No she doesn’t, and yes I also find it bizarre! I think it’s only mentioned at home, though. She says she would never say this stuff out loud in public when I’ve pulled her up on it. Not that it’s so much better to just be thinking it privately, but at least she knows not to trumpet her thoughts at school.

I wonder then if it's the actual opposite? Which would be more usual at that age? That she's actually insecure and looking for confirmation that she's really OK.

In any case, I'd just make very sure that descriptions of people's looks are kept well out of things and focus on being a nice person, reading books and learning stuff. 😁

I would encourage her to understand everyone is beautiful and has lovely characteristics so if she says she’s got she has pretty hair, I would say yes it’s lovely and you’re really good at xyz too, who in your class also has these qualities?

I wouldn’t stop her being confident in how she looks at all, but I would encourage her to find nice qualities in other people too and I’d teach her girl bring girls up.

If she says someone has chubby fingers in her class I’d ask her how she would feel if someone in her class said to her she had chubby finger / horrible hair etc, when she says sad explain that’s why we don’t say mean things about others.

I think it’s great she feels confident no one would care if it was a boy saying he was the best footballer in his class so I don’t see how a girl being body positive is a negative, however, she needs to learn that it’s ok to be confident and happy with your appearance but it’s not ok to bring others down to elevate yourself.

I’d also make a point of saying how kind she is and that she is a girls girl and always finds nice things to say about other people because when she realises this is something she will get positive praise for she will likely continue doing it.

I don’t see the problem. I’ve always been happy with my looks and thought I was pretty ever since I was a child. I don’t think it’s weird, it’s better than being self-hating. As long as she isn’t putting others down and realises other traits are also important I think it’s a good thing tbh

I've noticed a sudden obsession with looks in my year 6 DD and her friends. I think it's a stage, plus the influence of tiktok. My dd doesn't have it and isn't allowed to watch YouTube makeup tutorials etc, but some of the other girls do.

My DD is very confident and only says positive things about her own appearance but tbh she doesn't have quite the same genetic fortunes as your DD! I think there's a risk in being the prettiest if she doesnt have humility about it. You don't want her to be labelled a bitch in high school and have all the girls jealous but also disliking her. I would tell her straight: say it to yourself, say it to me, and yes it is true, but never say it to other girls. And explain why.

If she learns this, she'll be that young woman of whom everyone says, 'she's so pretty, she's so clever and accomplished, and she's so nice you can't even hate her for it!'

She'll get social cues from her friends if she's doing it with them. I would be wary of getting into a critical place with it - and girls tend to get encouraged towards modesty more than boys, which can be limiting for the ambitious - I would just stick to unconditional positive regard and encouraging balance and being ok with failure and vulnerability, if she has all that then she will go far.

Helping her to notice qualities in other people that she maybe doesn’t possess in bucket loads could be helpful too. Not in a way that makes her feel bad or compares her negatively to other people though. Highlighting qualities that you value in others could help her see that there is more in life than being pretty, popular and good at violin. Maybe she has a friend who is particularly resilient or one who is always helping others. It would need to be frequent and not over the top, but it would help show her what you value.

Tell her that however pretty she is, puberty is going to hit her with a lot of changes and is likely to make her feel (temporarily) ghastly, being no respecter of prettiness, so she needs to focus her sense of her own value elsewhere.

A pp is right that children cycle through different phases of looks and someone who is good-looking in childhood won’t necessarily always be.

DS (11) recently went back to the part of the UK where we lived till he was 7 and reconnected with old classmates. DH took reunion photos, and I didn’t even recognise one child, who was exquisitely pretty from pre-school through to Year 2 when I last saw her (blonde, peaches and cream, beautifully-cut features) and is now a gangly, gawky, very ordinary-looking girl.

I suspect she will grow into herself and be a striking woman, but puberty isn’t going to let her go without a fight. I felt sorry for her because even though I’m not particularly attuned to children’s looks, what I chiefly remember about this girl was her astonishing good looks, and her mother’s obvious pride in them. It could be very hard losing that, even temporarily.

As you're aware of this I truly believe what you're doing is the best attitude to have.
She's really young but those hormones are starting up and as a previous poster said it could be the exact opposite in that it's a bit of bravado.
I'd carry on saying what you've said you already are saying.
Just keep doing it. Keep planting the seeds of kindness to others. In generalised terms about how yes we're lucky to have Yadda but must always consider what we say has a great effect on others.

No matter what the subject.

My niece is same age and says things like this, not about looks but about how she’s the best dancer in her group and the best at piano etc. she isn’t and she’ll learn this. I was a bit surprised when I heard this from her. My DD is a few years older and although extremely confident didn’t go around telling adults she was the best at dancing or whatever. I would have pulled her up on it for sure if I’d heard her. Your DD is just saying it to you but probably still needs gently reigning in.

You don’t learn humility! You simply need to know that you are no different to anyone else. Those fingers that aren’t fat, still write, pick up stuff like everyone else’s, we’re born we die. We really are all the same, that’s what she needs to understand.
No one better than……. We’re just different

Difficult one.

My daughter is 12, and stunning in a way that's very physically mature for her age? She's got a figure a lot of adult women would envy (slim but with pronounced curves, long long legs), fantastic hair, and a lot of body confidence that just oozes from ger really, and means she gets attention in the street from older teen boys (who probably assume she is 15/16) which while she knows is inappropriate given her age, also clearly gratifies her on some levels. She isn't stupid or blind, so knows she is attractive.

However, I can't imagine her ever commenting on it in exactly this way you describe OP - not openly making a point of saying she has great hair or a great figure or whatever..... It's obvious so why would she say it?

So I am sort of wondering if your daughter is actually getting opposite messages? Someone (perhaps at school - kids can be horribly unfair) is telling her she has bad hair, weird skinny hands, whatever....And she feels she has to compensate by saying the opposite at home, perhaps hoping you will join in and agree she is pretty?

I could be way off mark here. But I just think that often when people, kids and adults, repeatedly talk about how they are great in whatever way (pretty, popular, clever, whatever) its actually because some cruel people have made them fear the opposite......

Unfortunately humility comes from humiliation. The words are intrinsically linked because the experience is intrinsically linked. Until we are humiliated we don’t tend to learn that we’re not as fantastic as we think we are. I suppose a rare person of exceptional wisdom might attain a level of humility without humiliation but for most of us, we’re so ignorant about ourselves, and so good at lying to ourselves, that humiliation is the path.

I wouldn't worry too much about acting humble as I think that will (sadly) get knocked out of her sooner rather than later. I would be more concerned if it reflects an underlying fragility or insecurity.