Dd11 - don’t know whether this is depression or normal puberty….

[dameofdilemma]

I don’t know what to think any more - the more online resources I read about teen depression/ low self esteem, the more confused I become.

Signs that dd could be depressed:

• she prefers to be in her room reading/listening to music/ on her phone rather than doing stuff with her parents
• she doesn’t talk to us much, short answers, doesn’t chat much at all, sometimes completely silent.
• she’s negative, pessimistic, grumpy. Rarely smiles with us.
• she doesn’t seem to get much enjoyment from things when with us
• She doesn’t seem enthusiastic about doing anything with us, even if she chooses
• she sometimes tells me she hates me (eg when she lost phone privileges for lying to school/us about where she was after school)

Signs dd might just be going through normal puberty (her periods started at 9 so physically she’s very much a teen)

• when she hangs out with her friends she seems happy, chatty, excited
• she has always been fine at school, academically and socially, according to the school and as far as we know
• She does seem to have friends, gets invited to things etc. There are definitely ups and downs with school friends (I hear from other parents generally about the group of girls, not specifically about dd) but mostly seems ok. She also has friends outside school.
• Eating, sleeping, hygiene etc all seem normal

I just can’t get dd to open up to us, no matter what we try (have tried the advice on Young Minds) and I worry we have no idea if she has just become more introverted or if there’s more to it. She can go days barely speaking to us.

I just keep trying to connect with her but we’re drifting further apart. I feel like a crap parent to be honest.

Welcome to tweens the warm up for teens

Sounds like a perfectly normal pre teen!

Sounds normal to me 😁

She's easing into independence from her parents. Sounds normal. I think you're worrying too much. Maybe she can sense your anxiety about her and that's what's making her grumpy with you?

It feels horrible but it's completely normal. You just have to ride it out and wait for her to come back to you. I was quite clear though that while a bit of moodiness is fine, rudeness is not. And that when you're sharing a house together, it helps everyone if someone who is in a bad mood can just say so, rather than taking it out on those who don't deserve it.

I watched a video recently that explained that when kids are little the sound of your voice activates parts of their brain and they feel warm towards you. When they're teenagers it's the opposite effect and that same feeling is activated by other people's voices, friends peers etc. it does change again though apparently.

That's interesting. I wonder if it's because they don't like the sound of nagging?!

I have a DD11 - she loves being in her room, doing her thing (making bracelets at the moment thinking she's going to sell them to become a millionaire!) whilst gassing and messaging with her friends. I'm glad she's got them!

booksandbrooks - this sounds like a BBC science podcast I listened to recently explaining how teen brains are developing and why it drives them to behave in certain ways.

Thanks all. Its reassuring to know some other 11 yr olds don't talk to their parents either.

I think what's tricky is dd hit puberty before any of her peers so has been like this since circa 9.5. So I'm comparing her to kids who I guess haven't hit this stage yet, even if they're the same age.

I've let her know we love her and if she wants to talk we are here. I've also let her know if she ever feels she wants to talk to someone outside the family, eg school counsellor, we'd support that and it could be confidential if she wanted that.

At this stage we're just trying to open doors and hope she walks through one of them....

Why did you decide 11 was appropriate for a phone?

Personally, the only thing I would be anxious about particularly was the lying about where she was after school.

Hope things pick up for your family unit and the summer brings some fun. Maybe plan some fun with her and let her invite bestie along?

That's a bit snippy! Most kids round here get them in Yr6 so 10/11 it's not for you to judge

Littlemonks - yup agree. We’ve tried to have regular days out with a friend along and are also holidaying with friends.

It all sounds perfectly normal. Is she in Year 6? I found that the second half of year 6 was one of the most challenging times - and a lot of Ds' friends' parents said the same. they're bored and irritable and want to move on, but they're still young and not really allowed to do the things they want to do.

I find that the best time for chatting to DS is in the car - just normal chatting, nothing crazy, but it's when I hear about school and which teachers he likes etc. He does a number of sports activities so we get quite a few opportunities for this sort of chit chat and I find it really helpful as a wy to see what's going on in his life. although the 20 minute, blow-by-blow account of a very boring conversation with his teacher yesterday was one I could have happily done without

The phone is a tricky one - on the one hand it helps as dd can independently chat to her friends when she’s not quite old enough to independently regularly cross several roads for the 15 min walk alone to see them. I think it’s important she doesn’t feel isolated.

On the other hand there are all the issues with SM, the potential for bullying etc. We follow the guidance from the school and online around guiding, explaining, parental controls etc. And it’s only WhatsApp and discord with known friends. No Insta/Snapchat/online chat with strangers etc.

We can also see the content and location (and dd knows we can and why). Tricky to balance respecting privacy with parental responsibility…

I think a phone is fine and perfectly normal at this age, with rules and guidelines in place which you clearly have.

It's a strange in between phase - I don't think it's odd that she doesn't want to rehanging out with you on a daily basis. Pre teens are desperate for independence while not being quite ready for it.

Do you have things you're both interested in. eg mine are always up for a shopping trip when it involves getting them some new clothes, and a Starbucks treat! . DH takes DS or DD to the trampoline park sometimes as it's something they all enjoy and they get to have fun together, even if it's not deep meaningful conversations. DH and DS also watch a lot of movies together - at home or at the cinema and now DS is into a few shows like Young Sheldon we sometimes watch that together. It's not deep communication but it's time together and enjoying the same things.

Managed to have a chat with dd…she’s upset over friendship issues at school and feels we don’t understand.
Tried my best to listen, not tell her what to do but make suggestions.

We went for a walk and a drink and just talked about nice things like holidays to take her mind off it.

i know kids need to be resilient and learn to deal with things like this but I genuinely think some kids just find it harder, fret more, see small problems as big ones, feel hopeless more easily etc. I just need to remember that I think.

Try a good long drive, just you and her. I always find DD opens up more when we're in the car, something about sitting side by side but not actually looking at each other makes it easier to say things you feel a little uncomfortable about saying.

Sounds very similar to my DD who also started periods at 9 so is miles into puberty.

I tell myself she will snap out of it sooner than peers <clutches at straws>

It's the inconsistency that drives me mad. She wanted me to take her shopping in half term. We had a really lovely day together and then as soon as DH picked us up from the station she was back to bullying her brother, one word answers and generally acting as though the world owes her a living.

Awe bless her. Glad she talked to you about it - sometimes they just need an ear and a cuddle (not in public though god forbid!) Friendship issues can be so hard on them.

After a brief moment we're now back to dd giving dp and I the silent treatment.

I did ask her if she doesn't speak to us because she doesn't feel she can say what she is thinking or whether its to hurt our feelings - she said "both".

I don't know where to go with this. Clearly deliberately behaviour to hurt someones feelings should have consequences.
But I don't want to take her phone away or ground her as the only thing that seems to snap her out of the glum silence is contact with her friends.
Even tho one of those 'friends' is more of a frenemy.

In Year 6, DS was up and down and every little thing was a crisis and I bore the brunt of that. I really do think it's completely normal, frustrating though it is. Ds picked his high school and one of the reasons he picked the one we all liked the best is because not only did he like it, but he wanted to get away from the boys at his old school and they were all going to another school.... but we still dealt with huge emotional trauma as it hit home to him that he wasn't going to be at school with people he knew and he'd "never have any friends ever again" etc etc etc.

Thanks OhBling. Definitely feels more down than up at the moment. Half term was strained at best and am dreading the summer school hols.

Dd is at a through school (state) so no chance of starting afresh unfortunately.

Hope it worked out in the end for your ds, there's no easy solution.

Honestly, he is a different child this year. Last year was horrendous. He had a friend at primary who is a nice kid but even his teachers told us that they felt the boys should only be friends away from school because at school, th other kind brought Ds down a lot and kept him from participating in this.

Meanwhile, DS was desperate for more independence. Sometimes we were willing and sometimes not. But overall, even when we were willing to give it to him, his friends parents weren't and so he couldn't enjoy it.

Obviously the other children were going through similar things so none of them were being nice to each other. I got a call from another mum at one point and to my eternal regret, while I didn't accept what she said 100% I didn't fully appreciate what a little toe rag her kid was and so I talked to DS about the situation and he was, understandably upset. It all came to a head with a huge fight in a park, with parents involved, but actually was the best thing that could have happened to DS because he got to see who his real friends were and that there were more of them than he'd realised.

Similarly, I think that while he didn't talk about it much, SATS really stressed him out and so when he did sort of okay (he is ND and frankly, none of us expected him to pass a single one and he did!!!) that was a huge weight off his shoulders too.

It's all a lot of detail but the point I'm trying to make is that there's a LOT going on for them at this point. Someone once said to me that if your children feel comfortable taking things out on you, that's actually a good sign as it means they DO feel safe at home. I tried to hold onto that a LOT!

As I think I said earlier - try to just ignore a lot of it unless the behaviour is totally not okay, obviously (boundaries being important yada yada) - and also try to keep up with the things you do together that she likes whether that's trips to a coffee shop, walking the dog, watching movies or whatever.

Good luck!!!