Dd 12 unbearable

[GrrLInterrupted]

My Dd 12 (eldest of 4) is getting worse. She was always ahead as a small child and impeccably behaved, then at 4 the lies started and the meltdowns but, as she was my 1st and I was young I thought it was normal. She lies constantly about anything and anyone, big lies and small lies. Her personal hygiene is a joke and she becomes argumentative and aggressive when encouraged to actually wash instead of pretending to. She attention seeks left right and centre, puts all her energy into upsetting people and starting arguments and has a major victim complex where she is NEVER in the wrong. She is golden at school and a high achiever so any time I've reached out for help over the years I basically get looked at as though I'm lying because in everyone else's eyes she's an angel. I'm actually scared of what kind of adult she will be as already at 12 I've never known anything like it, I think there's something going on mentally but how can I get help and support for her and for me when all she does is put on an act and lie and manipulate adults around her? Any sort of therapy or intervention would be seen as a massive achievement by her in terms of getting attention and being special and would just be another opportunity for her to create drama and use people for attention. For context when I say lies I mean anything from denying doing the very activity she is currently doing before your eyes, to the worst one where she accused her dad of SA and then admitted making it up. Please don't attack me for this I love my daughter but I don't like her anymore and I don't know what to do as she is actually unbearable to live with and just being in the room with her puts me into fight or flight. This is not the tip of the iceberg I could go on for hours about what shes like and what she's done

I’d bring her to see a therapist to be honest.

Also, love lovebombing etc.

Is there sibling rivalry going on also?

She sounds like she could be a psychopath (I’m not a psychiatrist but aren’t psychopaths born and sociopaths made but they’re kind of the same other than that)? Anyway, yes she sounds like she has something wrong on a psychiatric level. Have you spoken to your GP? I suppose they’d be the one to get a referral to a psychiatrist from. Maybe you could go to the GP without her initially so you can discuss things properly and formulate a game plan?

I’m sorry you’re going through this. Out of interest, what do your other relatives think of her?

In your shoes I’d take her to a psychologist and get a formal diagnosis so you know what she has and can then access recommended strategies and relative information and support groups.

She does all this to get attention, what happens when you give her attention? You sound like you're battling her the whole time. Does she get any 121 time with you?

Don't get me wrong, it sounds hard and professional help might be part of the picture too.

Omg. As you aren’t a psychiatrist (and even if you were) I suggest you hold back on suggesting people might be psychopaths.

OP-yes I’d see if you can get a GP appointment and book another meeting with school where you can really hammer home what she is like at home and ask them to help.

I don't have any experience, so can't offer concrete advice, however I just wanted to say I am sure she's not a psychopath! I agree she obviously needs some other support, I don't know what the most appropriate thing is.

I imagine if you ask on the SEN boards here, or the Therapeutic Parenting Facebook group, there will be people able to give you some specific advice. They may not be the best places but I think there will be very knowledgeable people there.

It sounds really difficult for you.

Why doesn’t she like washing, is it sensory? My child had their own version of reality too and masks at school, have you looked at ASD traits in girls?

Autism. It presents very differently in girls and given she’s “golden” at school (masking) and losing her shit at home, it’s quite telling.

coming from an autistic mum to an autistic boy.

it took literally years for me to get the school to see it because he was “golden”’- I pushed hard with a GP/school nurse/good headteacher to get a diagnosis.

My late MIL, always said girls will argue with their mothers.

There are maybe a lot of reasons for her behaviour, but, I was raped at 11 and began behaving like this. I thought I couldn't tell my parents because my dad had a gun and was always saying if anyone touches my daughter I will kill them etc. I was taken to psychiatrists but I lied to them, lied to the doctor's I was amazing at making shit up. This was the early 80s with no social media to copy. I would ask her the question because accusing her dad may have been a cry for help and you missed it in your horror. Maybe a sibling, relative or like me a boy in the park.

@Feliciacat I know you mean well, but the idea that she could be a pyschopath based on this is incredibly over the top and groundless.

I agree with PP who suggested looking into possible autism.

1 in 200 people are psychopaths. It’s also a spectrum, I wasn’t saying she was the next Jeffrey Dahmer. It’s a somewhat common disorder that doesn’t need to be stigmatised. That was where I was coming from.

A sensory processing need can be making trouble and getting 'feedback' from the reactions of people around you.
Def look into asd and adhd.
And sensory processing issues.

Look up 'not fine in school'.
Most of what you have written is 'textbook' for these often overlapping conditions.
I have child same age very similar, awaiting assesments, I have all the conditions. Since we learned about them and triggers my child's been a lot easier.
The other child has become more challenging and I believe it is because their needs are as yet undiagnosed and unmet.

Agree with the advice to ask gp or school to explore autism. This sounds very familiar ground to me. Not being able to easily understand or express your emotions effectively after masking during school - in some ways whilst difficult at home, it could be that she feels able to be unmasked there (eg safe). Having somewhere quiet/low lit in the house to go to alone for a bit during a meltdown (even if it’s not autism) might be helpful.

Have you got any links to further info on this as it’s something my DS definitely exhibits but I’ve never seen it referred to in and SPD groups I’m in.

I found it very sad to read your line "at four the lies started..." like you have tracked every negativity about her. At four, children are experimenting with fantasy and reality, it is normal.

We cannot know what is going on with your girl but inevitably the whole family has to be part of the solution. You have developed a negative attitude to her and she will know this with every fibre of her being. I think you need family therapy to prevent this becoming a tragedy.

Just a quick Google brought this up, there's loads more, this just scratches the surface , sorry crappy link am rushing, might need to c&p.
www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=turneyschool.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/Sensory-Vs-Behaviour-OT-Leaflet.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwif8MuWqMH7AhVTZ8AKHYOsBdMQFnoECFUQAQ&usg=AOvVaw0txZu6OU9jx4CbcUD9S1FD
Aldo very common and known factor of adhd, an often coexisting condition as well as can be in asc .
Can be the children knows they're different and struggling to communicate effectively, over stimulated and just really trying to get attention.
Breaks my heart how little I know and those around us who were and still are really nasty about my desperately unhappy child.

Some of the sensory issues are clearly due to issues with eyes ears stomach and nhs absolutely refuse to address it beyond treating obvious symptoms and no further investigation.
It's been hell and I've had breakdowns and still struggling now.

All the learning and training I've done has given me a transformed child.

Not 'perfect' but it's changed our lives and my child is so much happier. And this is without any of the professional intervention I've begged for for years.

People saying 'get a therapist', unless the therapist specialises in the autistic spectrum, sensory and adhd conditions, you will get a short term cbt type intervention which won't help longterm and/or you will be made to feel like a shit parent and all the focus will be on your parenting.

By all means get support for yourself and help you bolster yourself to help your dd, and find dd someone safe she can talk to, but try and find real experts and talk to people with lived experience to help you both.
make yourself her confidante and educate those around you .
Once she opens up to you about what's really going on and you do your research you will be able to find the right help as you will suddenly have the language and comparisons you need in order to make the right referrals.

people will tell you she's just being a teenager . It's been since she was tiny.
You don't need people who aren't in your corner.

No advice I'm afraid but I can relate to so much of what you've said OP with my own DD. Sending hugs

God, I'm so sorry you went through this.

OP it does sound like good advice to consider something might have been a source of trauma for her that led to this behaviour?