Trouble at school

[Hesheweeshe]

My DD age 12 has started to get into trouble at school since starting secondary.

Its classed as low level disruption but its becoming more and more frequent, i am being contacted by the school on a weekly if not sometimes daily basis. The school aren't overly concerned, the problem is being cheeky to teachers and getting into scrapes with her friends but I really am now getting to the point that i feel its escalating .

She is the youngest of 4 and the youngest in our wider family with lots if cousins etc and has always been a little bit lively and cheeky, i think to keep in with all the older ones as we are very close so do a lot together. I have to say that we have always taken it with good humour as she was entertaining when she was little and as shes got older she would be pulled up if she was being a bit too cheeky but she could always smile it away.

Her older siblings are popular (one has now left onto college) and well known in the school (I've never had a detention between the three of them) so i wonder if shes gone in overly confident a bit too big for her boots. Not knowing her place in the pecking order.

She attracts drama, there is always something going on every day, she is falling out with someone etc. But she is alway very upset with what the other person has said or done but can't seem to acknowledge the part she has played.

The school have been good but last week alone i had 2 emails home and she had 3 detentions.

We are at a bit of a loss of what to do as we feel we are at a crucial point to try and get it under control.

She cannot see that she is doing anything wrong, we have sat her down and talked to her, we have given her consequences etc but it is always someone else's fault or she just claims she didn't do what they have said she has done. If we end up frustrated and cross she is so upset and sobs. We have been told that the new group of friends she is mixing with are not a positive mix as they bring out the worst in each other. So she isn't allowed out with them out of school.

We are now on Easter hols and already this weekend she was allowed her phone for a short period and it all kicked off. She isnt allowed the sm apps but she went on someone elses phone and logged in and got caught up in a really nasty exchange with 'a friend'.

Its horrible as we cannot trust her to do as shes asked or told.

We are now seriously thinking of moving her school but are we just moving the problem along....any suggestions of work shops, parenting techniques or counselling that could help divert her in a different direction would be really helpful.

I don't think changing school will necessarily stop it. I would come down on her like a ton of bricks and ignore the sobbing and drama.

“ She is the youngest of 4 and the youngest in our wider family with lots if cousins etc and has always been a little bit lively and cheeky, i think to keep in with all the older ones as we are very close so do a lot together. I have to say that we have always taken it with good humour as she was entertaining when she was little and as shes got older she would be pulled up if she was being a bit too cheeky but she could always smile it away.”

There’s your problem right there. She’s been let away with murder all her life because she’s the littlest, cutest, now she can’t handle being told off.
How did you (and dad?) react to her sobbing and becoming “upset”?
Was the removal of her phone her only punishment?
I think you’re right in needing to learn new techniques to handle your problem and I wish you luck with it, but no, I wouldn’t move schools.

If its bad enough for weekly phonecalls, that's pretty bad and consistent. Does she know how to behave? How was primary?

Clear and enforced boundaries for each detention. You need to nip this in the bud at 12 otherwise she'll be causing more problems at 16.

Does she do any out of school activities? Is there scope for her moving form groups in school to be with different children?

Moving her might work but you risk the same again.

You've said yourself she's got away with it in the past so now she's being pulled up for it, it is going to cause confusion. You need to be firm, fair and consistent and you will come out the other side. It'll take longer as she's got away with it for so long but it's good you're recognising the problem now and not burying your head.
Good luck

How big is the school? Can she move forms?

I think maybe ive confused everyone as I certainly wasn't saying shes been allowed to get away with it....she certainly hasn't been allowed to get away with bad behaviour in the past. She is definitely aware of rules and what behaviour is acceptable and not acceptable. I was trying to add context in trying to see if her acting lively and a bit cheeky when amongst her older siblings and cousins in a group environment maybe has given her a bit too much confidence in the secondary environment but certainly wasn't saying that was the case. We never had a single problem with behaviour at primary.

She has an active out of school life, she competes every weekend in a sport and also has horses which keep her busy.

The point is she is generally well behaved at home, a loving sibling, daughter etc but she is misbehaving at school in what appears to be an attempt to keep up and in with a certain group.

We have requested that she be moved forms and the school has said this is not something they like to do but will see how things go and make a decision In the summer but we are keen for it to happen now.

We are getting calls home but its not for high level bad behaviour it's classed ad low level disruption ie not listening, talking when not allowed to etc.

Shes not allowed out with friends or allowed friends over if shes not behaved at school, she is only allowed her phone during the school day (she travels by bus). We have spoken to her lots and she says all the right things and we will have a good week but then we will get another call or a detention through.

I was just asking if anyone had any ideas or experience as we are trying our best to bring it under control now .... she knows what is expected of her and she is very remorseful and upset but it doesn't change.

Im not sure where from my original post you got that she has been allowed to get away with murder 🙈

Is the school ridiculously strict? I know one of our local comps is super strict and doles out detentions for the slightest thing.

What have the school said they want to happen?
We ring parents once the low level disruption becomes constant and/or when it impacts on the class's progress. We wouldn't ring home if one student was generally distracted with one teacher and it had no impact on everyone else.
That you're getting calls "weekly and sometimes daily" suggests it is more than one teacher and it's impacting other people.
The examples you've given are normal teenage pushing the boundaries. Did you question why those examples (not listening/talking when not supposed to) warrant such harsh consequences?

Did you question why those examples (not listening/talking when not supposed to) warrant such harsh consequences?

This behaviour should warrant harsh consequences. Would you want your child in a class being disrupted by OPs daughter talking?

Schools should be ridiculously strict when it comes to behaviour for learning.

@Hercisback

Did you question why those examples (not listening/talking when not supposed to) warrant such harsh consequences?

This behaviour should warrant harsh consequences. Would you want your child in a class being disrupted by OPs daughter talking?

Schools should be ridiculously strict when it comes to behaviour for learning.

I've been in a classroom for 27 years. And my children have been in them for 18.

My point was exactly what I said.

If this girl has done this a few times, with one teacher, and it's not generally disrupting the learning, then weekly and daily phone calls home would seem excessive.

My point was, unless this is some rigid disciplinarian military academy style school, then what the OP has told us is happening is not. It has to be more than that. Hence my questioning what she'd said to the school and the school had said to her.

If this girl has done this a few times, with one teacher, and it's not generally disrupting the learning, then weekly and daily phone calls home would seem excessive.

Her behaviour is disrupting learning repeatedly. The OP says this. Being cheeky and not listening is disruptive and takes up learning time.

I'm a teacher too and would contact home for this after 2-3 incidents where the in class warnings/detentions seem to not have worked.

I’d be interested to know what she was really like at primary. There are children at primary where they might not be getting into trouble directly, but the ‘cheekiness’ (you’re putting a positive spin on it) can be wearing and maybe now she’s at high school more is expected from her.

She just sounds a bit big for her boots and that’s understandable as the youngest but now’s a great time for her to learn she’s no more special/cute/cheeky/adorable than anyone else in her family. She needs to stop seeing herself as the main one with others as supporting roles (could be wrong but that’s how it reads to me).

Also if she has a horse maybe she needs to realise she has to behave to earn privileges like that.

You said yourself. She’s cheeky. She’s too full of herself and big for her boots. She thinks she can get away with stuff with a smile.

I’d be banning her from any horse competitions until she had good school reports. I’d make her do a big muck out on her own to tire her out. And lots of practice in the yard / at home. But absolutely no stuff that would make her feel like billy big boots.

And I’d take the phone away until at least September and she would not be allowed any social media.

A lot of schools have a policy where you have to ring home for even a mild sanction (we do and it’s a pain.)

It sounds difficult OP. I wonder what’s her relationship with her siblings like? Would one of them having a chat work better?

I think year 7 can be really hard, don’t worry too much about the judgement on here, it’s par for the course

Repeated low level disruptions with calls home is a big problem. Don’t minimise it, even if it sounds like the teachers are - they are trying to be helpful. If it is at the stage of calls home, it’s serious.
Take away her phone. A week with no drama, no calls home, she can have it back. Until the next drama / call home.

if it is at the stage of calls home, it’s serious

I’m not saying that this is wrong but it’s not a universal truth.

But what you thought was “lively” or “cheeky” or whatever spin you are putting on it, was actually probably quite annoying behaviour. Now she’s just carrying it on but at a higher level and it’s inappropriate at high school. She’s disrupting the class with her lively cheekiness. But the whole family indulged that behaviour when she was younger and didn’t rein her in. She’s probably wondering why no one thinks it’s cute now.

Someone else's "lively" kid is another person's PITA

Ask for her to go on a daily report so you can see exactly what’s going on. If she knows how to behave then don’t have conversations about it just apply consequences and let that do the talking. Make it more worth her while to behave than not. If she normally has 2 hours with her horse then cut down 15 minutes for every cross on the report for example. Don’t run out of consequence.

Honestly I'd ask to school to come down on her like a tonne of bricks as week. My third boy has always been a bit 'cheekier. than his brothers. Partly as that's it personality and also. We definitely were harder on his brothers . He got in trouble in school last year and we killed him. Total hardcore with a conversation that we would not tolerate iit. I would tell her that the next time the school rings you she will lose her activities for a month and mean it. Take it from there

I think it’s good to be firm and have consequences for poor behaviour.

However, I’d also be mindful that it’s a big adjustment and that while she might seem brash and confident and cheeky on the exterior, sometimes that’s hiding real insecurity and uncertainty.

I do understand why posters are saying to limit things she enjoys: the problem is that if these things are also thinks that make her feel good, withdrawing them makes her feel bad, this doesn’t result in compliance but anger and resentment and that can be counterproductive.

I’d want to go down the line of - yes, poor behaviour won’t be tolerated, it’s unfair on your peers, you will lose your phone if teachers contact me.

However squabbles with peers are totally normal, I wouldn’t worry about these.

I’d also really try to ensure she is feeling as confident and happy as possible. She’s only eleven / twelve, she isn’t a cocky, confident teen, she’s a little girl trying to act big.

You say she understands rules and consequences but I disagree.
Either she has something going on like ASD or ODD or you have facilitated her behaving like this for quite a while.
Calls home from the school indicate an issue that will escalate pretty quickly in my experience. You could be looking at suspension etc. You need to address her behaviour but it seems she has escaped proper consequebces to date. Now comes the fast learning if you are going to avert further issues.

Thanks everyone. Points taken i will take the advise where offered ...