How weird is this?

[Pegs11]

I am very concerned. A friend of mine allows her 12 (nearly 13) year old son to share her bed almost every night. Apparently he demands it, and she acquiesces without a fight.

He frequently hits his mother and sisters, and his mum doesn’t ever discipline him. She mollycoddles him, and bends to his will most of the time.

Her son has behavioural problems, but it’s not as though he doesn’t know how to behave. He is intelligent and can be quite charming. He just knows what he can get away with, and with whom (he is much better behaved when he’s with his dad or his granny). When his mum is with him, he will act up. He will either be screaming and demanding things, or he’ll be draped around her neck like a toddler and talking in a baby voice.

I’m very concerned about the weird behaviour and weird relationship they seem to have. She will not engage in a discussion about it.

I can’t make head or tail of it. I don’t know how worried I should be, or if I should just tell myself that she’s his mum and she knows best.

I repeat: he is nearly 13.

Just wondered what you guys think.

You don't need to make head nor tail of it though do you? Unless he wants to come and get in your bed, you don't have to worry about it

And if you genuinely are concerned from a safeguarding point of view - report via the proper channels

I think his mum is doing what she needs to do to get through. When you say he has behavioural problems do you actually mean he has SEN? It is very common for children to behave differently with their parents (ie, their safe place) and then mask their behaviours when others are around, including grandparents and very close friends. This is really damaging for the child.

Even if your friend doesn’t wish to talk about it, try to be supportive of her and her son. It’s a really lonely place to be.

@NotLikeThatGerald I think we all have a safeguarding duty to children. I’m not sure if this might qualify as a safeguarding issue per se… I guess that’s why I’m seeking input, seeing what others think of it. Reporting it would be a huge step and I wouldn’t want to do it unless I thought it would really help.

@Maryann1975 Yes he has SEN. His mother loves him very much and is undoubtedly doing what she thinks is best, but is a mother always right? The rest of the family wholeheartedly disagree with her treatment of the child and think it’s wrong, indeed some of them feel it’s tantamount to abuse. But there is no one involved who can really be objective because of their closeness. And none of them are prepared to do anything about it through fear of the mother banning them from having contact with the children.

I don't think it's any of your business. He obviously has problems, how they deal with it is nothing to do with you. On what grounds do you think it's a safeguarding issue? You have no reason to suspect sexual abuse which is probably what you mean. There was a similar thread about this last week.

What are your safeguarding concerns OP?

I think you should mind your own business.

This is a woman with a child with SEN who wants to share her bed.
Maybe making sleep in his own bed, results in lots of meltdowns and unsafe behaviour from him. It may also stop his sisters getting sleep. It will almost certainly mean his mum can't sleep. Her lack of sleep may mean her ability to keep him safe in the day is damaged and parent him about other things.
She sounds like she's doing what she needs to do to function.
SEN children don't always respond to conventional discipline. Some do, some don't, some respond sometimes or for a while and then stop responding.
If the girls are getting hurt and aren't safe then that is a separate issue. She needs to supported in finding strategies to keep them safe, even if that's simply keeping them away from their brother. They need to be linked in with services such as young careers and ensure support is in place for them. Her not disciplining him in a way you understand for hurting them is not the issue if she's doing other things to keep them safe.
Don't judge her parenting until you've walked a mile in her shoes.

We absolutely do all play a part in safeguarding amd I'd be first in line to report anything that pinged on my radar

But you say you have no real safeguarding concerns? In that case, it's simply mind your own business

I think kids with ADHD and / or Autism often have problems sleeping, so I know a number of parents who end up sleeping with their child. Unless you think there is sexual abuse happening then I wouldn't worry about this. Other threads have been about a parent forcing the child to sleep in bed with them and that is totally different to the child requesting them.

I don’t see the problem? My son is 9 so I know not exactly the same but he has autism and has been in my bed for a few nights now as he won’t sleep in his own room due to seeing a moth in there, he is terrified of bugs so this can happen often and it takes ages before he will go back in, it’s the only way we would get any sleep!

I don't think it has anything to with you. I have a friend with a ten yo who sleeps in her bed every night, they have SEN, surely you just do what works. Lack of sleep is torture.

I think I need to clarify a few things here. In my original post I set out to ascertain whether people felt the behaviour in question was appropriate or could be playing a role in the damage being caused to the children. I’m grateful to hear your opinions, it’s helpful to hear from parents struggling with similar behavioural issues and to have it pointed out that’s it’s not black-and-white.

To those who are telling me to mind my own business… it is my business. I am very close with the family, the father and eldest sister confide in me and want me to be the voice of reason, and I want to be that voice. It is not always easy to be objective about an issue when you’re so closely involved and when you see the damage that’s being done and the pain people are in. I want to be able to help. So I needed to hear what other people made of it, in the hope it might bring me a little clarity and perspective instead of me getting angry when I see children I’m close to in distress.

Whether or not there is an actual safeguarding issue I honestly don’t know. It does not seem clear cut to me. All I can say is that I am concerned about the wellbeing of all of them.

What concerns do you have?

My nearly 12 year old still co-sleeps. I still have the nightly battle, fall asleep and he just gets into my bed. I was abused as a child and would absolutely be traumatised to think it was a safe guarding issue.
I have been told ds is naughty, he needs a slap, he needs this that and the other. The reality is he has good days and bad days. As he gets older the violence is a lot less but he can still be very toddler like. SN kids are complex and you shouldn’t judge someone’s parenting.
Look up masking and the fizzy bottle.

I'm not sure why everyone is focusing on the bed sharing and glossing over the violence

He frequently hits his mother and sisters

that is not ok. If there are young girls frequently being assaulted by their almost teen brother then that is^ a safe guarding concern.

I think you need to do a lot of research in to his medical condition in order to understand some of the issues the family have. (I am fed up of asking family to do this- they want to help, want to understand, but need me to spoon feed them everything. In between trying to manage my child and their needs, look after my other children, work, run a home and Trying to have a bit of a life myself, there is very little time for trying to get others to understand. I’ve had to find time to research her condition, I think it’s fair to expect that others do some back ground reading too).

Once you have done that, look again at the issues the family have and you might understand what is going on a bit better.

At the risk of being handed my arse on a plate, what jumps out of the OP to me is that this boy is calling all the shots and being violent to his sisters with no repercussions, yet is also highly intelligent and capable of being charming.

I have known my best friend (bf) since we were 4yo and her older brother was exactly the same as this this. He controlled, manipulated & threatened their mother, who was the sweetest, most patient and gentle woman you could imagine, threatened her with violence and was repeatedly violent to my friend which only intensified when she hit puberty.

He would purposely aim for her lower and back and stomach when he hit/kick her and would bash the bathroom door open while she was in the bath.

I used to sleepover most weekends and I got on with her brother who always behaved around me and we had a shared interest. She only told me recently how grateful she was that my being there allowed her and her mum to have a few hours of uninterrupted time together without him flying into a jealous rage.

40+ years later, her brother has suffered with MH issues all his life, and its obvious he must have has undiagnosed SEN back then, but the 80s was a very different time.

Obviously this lad needs whatever help is able to access, but my concern based purely on your post @Pegs11 is that the mother and sisters need much more support than they are currently getting.

Well what is the SEN, does the child go to a special school? Because it will affect if the treatment from the mother is appropriate, but you are saying the other family members aren't happy and feel the DS is being put before them? It's a tricky situation, if it's that bad maybe the child needs a residential school, but with SEN children are related with their parents, so normally at their worse.

Unfortunately some child with sen can be aggressive, my son is but he is disciplined though

The diagnosis keeps changing and it’s been a real struggle to get him the right diagnosis and the right help and support, but the most recent diagnosis is mild autism. He got sent to a special school for children with behavioural issues but it didn’t work out, his parents disagreed with everything the school said and did, so the boy had no reason to respect the school and his behaviour just got worse. He is now back in mainstream education and doing better there. He behaves himself in school.

Regarding safeguarding, I don’t think he is being sexually abused, that’s not the issue. My concern is that that HE is becoming more and more of an abuser, and the fact that this is being enabled through the total lack of boundaries. “No” does not mean “no”… He can manipulate his way around the “no” and always get his way. He is allowed to abuse the women in his family, verbally and physically, there are never repercussions. He’s torn out hair, brandished sticks and scissors, punched stomachs.

I also think there is a lot of emotional abuse going on in the family. The parents’ behaviour towards each other is far from good role modelling.

He is reaching puberty… What will happen when he gets a girlfriend? What if he tries it on with a girl and she says no, and he doesn’t believe her? And honestly I think the bed sharing with his mum is not helping matters. He is insistent and manipulative in that regard. It’s not that he can’t sleep without his mum, because he can sleep in other family members’ houses with no problem. Perhaps I have focused too much on the sleeping thing when really it’s just one piece of a much bigger picture. I just think it’s not helping him with his development. It’s just fire-fighting.

As @MintyCedric says, “this boy is calling all the shots and being violent to his sisters with no repercussions”.

I wish everyone in his family had more support, including his mother, but she will not accept that she needs it, she is convinced that everything she’s doing is right and thinks she’s in control.