Why are girls so awful

[Lushmetender]

Why is it girls change around age 9? My first dd had a couple of friends but then they all dumped her at around age 9 and ddoesnt have any friends at school. Teacher put her on a trust thing where they meet other girls with difficulties where she’s met a few girls but they’re all a bit odd frankly. Now my other dd best friend has started being really horrible, ripping up her drawings, not wanting to partner with her and has not invited her to her party! What is it with girls???

Posters don't like the OP using the word odd to describe the other girls, but are happy enough to insinuate that her daughter must also be odd in order to be chosen to mix with them.

@HalfwomanHalfcookie

Posters don't like the OP using the word odd to describe the other girls, but are happy enough to insinuate that her daughter must also be odd in order to be chosen to mix with them.

You’ve clearly missed the point of my post.

Oh ok Mrs

Thank god for odd

It's the age that periods kick in. Nuff said.

I have experienced with dd some of what you mean. Luckily there are some kind girls in dd class too. It’s so hard on them dd has twice developed shingles before return to school which Gp has suggested was due to stress. School not hugely helpful but stating new activities seems to have helped. Agree with the apple not falling far from the tree tho

I understand what you are saying, girls can be horrible, I experienced this with my dd around that age and it wasn’t a great time. We were lucky that my dd made friends with another girl who had also been bullied. School was not helpful at all.

I would it not to be the case but certainly I've observed much more drama/casual emotional cruelty amongst the girls in both my DC's classes than amongst the boys. Not sure why, since I don't believe girls to be less kind than boys. Somehow it seems almost expected, or socially sanctioned for girls to be a bit mean to each other. Anyway, my DD has managed to avoid much of the drama swirling around by having a couple of different groups of friends and always having somewhere to retreat to, and also having boy friends as well as girls. She is kind and used to be a bit of a people pleaser and not protest if a friend was behaving badly. I did some work with her on calling out bad behaviour. I showed her that there is a way to do it without being unkind or rude, but still making it clear that the behaviour is not OK. Often bad behaviour seems to thrive in the shadows, so I taught my daughter to publicly and firmly say stuff like 'Emily, why did you just say xyz to me, that was incredibly unkind' or 'imogen, when you did xyz it was bullying behaviour, friends don't do that to each other.' It actually didn't take long for the couple of more troublesome girls to back off.

I have a teacher friend who taught in girls schools for many years before moving to mixed.
Time and again she’s witnessed a huge difference between the behaviour traits of most girls and most boys. Neither is better behaved than the other - but there are differences in development, often as girls often develop emotionally faster than boys.

Inconsistent friendship behaviour (friendly one day, not the next), leaving one particular child out, forming bonds by uniting in being unkind to one child, deliberate unkindness (derogatory remarks etc), lots of unkind actions carried out as a group….sadly she saw a lot of this in girls in particular.

The other thing she saw was parents thinking their child was lovely as they saw their child’s behaviour in relation to ‘the group’ but not how they behaved towards the child left out.

We do our kids no favours by pretending bullying doesn’t exist.
Our kids may well be lovely to the kids they view as their friends. But it’s how they behave towards the shy, lonely, self conscious child that shows us whether they are kind, considerate, brave and honest.

I’d never describe dd as universally lovely and kind. No one is.

There always seems to be 2 girls vying for the friendship of one girl and she plays them off against each other itms.

Hopefully there will be some nicer kids in her class

I have a 16 year old daughter and two sons (who are all delightful obviously ) and the only truly awful child we have come across is a boy, who is the only child I've ever met (and I used to be a secondary school teacher) who I truly loathe. Even then I can see it's his parents fault - very bright child, very disturbing (fairly well off, management career type) family, charming on the surface but actually deeply unpleasant, misogynistic bully of a father... The apple hasn't fallen far from the tree.

I understand what you mean OP.

Some girls get left out because the other girls have gone a bit tribal and it all gets political and cliquey.
Other girls get left out because they are genuinely a bit “odd” - although with hindsight I realise this was learning difficulties/neurodiversity/poverty etc.

I think you can just do what you can to build her self-esteem so she realises that these petty exclusions are below her. I also think there’s a lot to be said for encouraging her to form friendships outside of school, especially because these girls already have a hobby in common and thus more naturally like-minded.

Susannahmoody

“Thank god for odd“

This. I was delighted when it dawned on me that our son had been put in the house with the oddballs at school: delightful individuals (being the operative word), every one.

@Lushmetender I totally emphathise with this. As I've posted elsewhere on Mumsnet, my 11-year-old has been recently dumped by her best pal of several years, and is now excluded from her little group of 3/4 at school. I suspect my girl is a bit bossy, being an only child, but she's not nasty or bitchy. She's very soft-hearted and sensitive. Last night her former bestie blocked her text messages, even though my dd hadn't texted her since they fell out. (And she let me check her iPod to confirm this) DD admits to being bossy and a bit moody sometimes with her friend, but never nasty or unkind or bullying. To be honest I believe her, because we've drummed it into her not to be like that. I'm at a loss to be honest. She's so sad and is in tears heading to school in the mornings. I'm tempted to talk to her pal's parents - they're really nice people - but the general advice seems to be 'stay out of it'. Anyone got any experience of this?

[quote SammyTheDog]@Lushmetender I totally emphathise with this. As I've posted elsewhere on Mumsnet, my 11-year-old has been recently dumped by her best pal of several years, and is now excluded from her little group of 3/4 at school. I suspect my girl is a bit bossy, being an only child, but she's not nasty or bitchy. She's very soft-hearted and sensitive. Last night her former bestie blocked her text messages, even though my dd hadn't texted her since they fell out. (And she let me check her iPod to confirm this) DD admits to being bossy and a bit moody sometimes with her friend, but never nasty or unkind or bullying. To be honest I believe her, because we've drummed it into her not to be like that. I'm at a loss to be honest. She's so sad and is in tears heading to school in the mornings. I'm tempted to talk to her pal's parents - they're really nice people - but the general advice seems to be 'stay out of it'. Anyone got any experience of this?[/quote]
I have experience of this from the other side.

My daughter is a similar age and was recently in a situation where she had to dump her long term "friend". The mother went apeshit because her PFB was just so perfect, was a bit demanding but according to her just lovely and innocent. However that's not how her peers or their parents viewed her. This child was stroppy and horrible to the kids and would lie about it to her mother, claiming they were all bullying her. The mother was manipulative and sneaky both with her daughter's friendships and the other parents. It ended up both mother and daughter getting weirdly obsessive and engaging in peculiar and totally unacceptable behaviours. The mother bullied and alienated other kids and would speak to class parents about whomever she had set in her sights as the target and the cause of her daughters upset. It's a shame as the girl was merely behaving the way she'd been shown by her mother and probably had the potential to be lovely but the mother ruined it for her.

My advice is to stay out of it @SammyTheDog - don't be the creepy mother. Parents are still considering whether her behaviour is a police matter. Speak to the school about bullying and teach your daughter to be resilient and to block.

My ds is one of the 'odd' ones 😆... he is so much happier now he has found other slightly more quirky boys to hang out with and no longer has to fail to try and understand the unwritten rules of the football boys playground hierarchy...

It was a bit of a gut wrench to work out he WAS the weird kid the others weren't sure about, but only because I was too and didn't want him to feel like I did at school.. but actually it was the making of him because I could support him in a way I wasn't..

Yes you are totally right OP and this that think ‘my 9 year old DD is lovely’ are usually the kids who are the worst IME.
My DD suffered terribly from year 5 which is 9-10.
She has a couple of lovely friends before for a few years they but another girl came along whos mother thought she was the most lovely thing on the planet and very carefully and cleverly (without ever doing anything that could be told to the teacher) squeezed my DD out of the friendship group by excluding her bit by bit week by week until my DD had been replaced completely and was out of the group. The girl invited the other two to all sorts of things- parties, days out, sleepovers and never once invited my DD. I helped in the class and saw with my own eyes the deliberate attempts at excluding and getting the other two girls to also exclude her. I watched my DD go from being happy and loving school to crying every night and saying she was worthless and why did no one like her.
It was awful and ripped my heart out. This went on for 2 years.
She is 13 now and it’s affected her even now, she still has deep feelings that she’s unpopular and really underneath no one likes her and they are just being polite.
If you have a girl, teach them to be inclusive. Teach them to look out for someone feeling sad. Teach them never to squeeze someone out or deliberately exclude.

Thanks to all replies. My youngest was up at 4 am the other night (she’s just had covid so is a bit all over the place) and on my phone there are pictures of her crying with a picture of the girl who is now not wanting to play with her - they just appeared in my gallery via my account on her iPad. Sad she was struggling at that time in the morning while we asleep. Said she’s said that friend X doesn’t seem to remember the good friendship they had. Think her friend is maturing at faster rate than she is. Told her she needs to play with many friends! My older dd who I said her friends were odd
Was more because they are using terms I never knew existed before making my daughter say she hasn’t decided what sexuality she is. We think that is more of a being than a conscious decision as such as is only 11 years old to have a good idea of who her true self is. Plus one of them was being horrible to her younger sister without good cause and actually grabbed her leg and left a red mark so while I was happy for my daughter to meet new friends that incident made me a bit concerned about one of them as friends .

Hi @Lushmetender

I agree that 9 seems peak age for things becoming complicated for many girls. Like PPs I think it does have to do with hormones. But please don't fall into the 'girls are horrible' trope - some are, some aren't, although they certainly seem much more complex characters than boys at that age! FWIW, the bitchiest character ever in my DC's was a boy. He was just awful.

Just wanted to add my experience. I have a 12 YO DD who went pretty much through the same as your DD from age 9. Her last two years in primary were spoiled by the class politics, including her hitherto 'best friend' suddenly excluding her and getting all the other girls to exclude her too. This was a very small cohort. DD cried often and dreaded school every morning.

I went into the school when things came to a head, and DD was actually told off by a TA for 'not wanting to play with the others' . I told her teacher that she had been bullied for several months, on their watch, and they hand't even noticed. 'Bullying?!' - the teacher asked, horrified. Well yes, those 'lovely' girls are bullying DD by exclusion. Which is the worst type of bullying there is. It's insidious and gets under their skin for life.

School did their best from mid year 5 onwards, and things improved slightly, because school was aware I was shit-hot watching them and knew who the bullies were. I did ask DD if she wanted to change schools but she declined. I couldn't wait until the end of year 6 - then covid arrived.

Just like I knew it would, Secondary School was the best thing that could ever happen to DD. Large pool of friendships, new beginning. She now has a small group of truly nice 'odd' friends.

DD is one of the 'odd' ones - and thank god like a PP said! The reasons for DD being excluded boiled down to her not liking the same sutff most of the others liked (same films, same clothes, same music - so her 'oddness'). And perhaps a touch of jealousy as DD is quite academic. That's it.

The 'lovely' girls in her primary school were your 'normal', generally pleasant, sneaky, butter wouldn't melt type children - on the surface. They fooled teachers and parents right, left and centre.

I really would speak to the school and stress how serious this is.
After-school activities away from people from school are also a life saver.

Just seen your update. I am a bit confused about the sexual orientation elment? Is this what her new friends have been talking about?

@Lipsandlashes

Wow! The the competitive AIBU sport of ‘who can be the most vile to the OP’ is strong in this thread

Well in fairness OP has been pretty mean about all girls!

TBH I have found my boys much more hard work since they were in Reception. My daughter is delightful and has been very wise in friendships/ had no issues with friends at all. My boys on the other hand...🤦🏼‍♀️. One bullied, the other getting into constant trouble. So I guess it just varies...

Hi all new pc terminology for me but using language such as pan sexual and binary, non binary. I know they start to learn about sexuality and will be curious but again she is a young 11 yo and needs to mature a bit. Sexuality is not something you decide. It’s something you are as you mature.

I have a 22 and a 19 year old. What I will say is that neither of my DC are really good friends now, with the kids they are friends with at age 8.9.10 etc. They need to find their way and their friendship group. Chances are that your dd and her friend are pals because they sat next to one another in class, extra mural etc. They do go through a range of friendship groups, so having fall outs isn't unusual.

It's the way they fall out that can be upsetting. Back in the day my DC didn't have phones and being blocked etc. They told their friend that they going to hang out with xyz at break instead.

Just don't go in fighting her battles for her OP. No contact the other mum to sort it out etc. It's a lesson for her to learn im life and it does happens all the time.

It is shit to see your child go through it though.

@Lushmetender

Hi all new pc terminology for me but using language such as pan sexual and binary, non binary. I know they start to learn about sexuality and will be curious but again she is a young 11 yo and needs to mature a bit. Sexuality is not something you decide. It’s something you are as you mature.

I wouldn't worry about it too much. Talking about your sexuality and gender is the current equivalent of green hair and hairspray of the 80's, I' say! It's a fad that's all over the place.

DD was just 12 or maybe still 11 when her friends started talking about that. Some kids are more interested than others. At that age it goes a bit over their heads, but it's normal for them to start wondering about that sort of thing.