Rude 9 year old dd

[Atwhitsend]

Help fellow Mumsnetters

First time posting, long time lurking.

I am at my whits end with my DD, 9 years

She is like the ditty… when she was good, she was very very good, but when she was bad she was horrid

She absolutely hates school, moans and complains but is a great student, teachers love her and has friends. She does suffer from anxiety, teachers have been wonderful and she sees a therapist. It has gotten better and I have gotten better in how I relate to her and communicate with her. We have been working a lot on managing emotions and responding appropriately to stress. She does not do well under pressure, and often I feel like I walk on tip toes around her because I feel like life is full of pressure and you sometimes just have to ‘man up’, but I have been told by her therapist that she responds differently than I would and need a lot of time and a calm environment to process things.

However - this morning she started her typical Monday morning complaint of “i hate school”, which I listened to and empathised with, as per usual. She has a club at 8 am before school starts which is for the top set / high academic children and an invite-only thing. She hates it but we agree to do it because it seemed to be a ‘special’ thing to be invited to. Turns out that just means getting up 45 minutes earlier on a Monday to do additional work, which to some highly academic ‘ motivated children might seem fun (they are creating a yearbook for her class) but to my daughter just seems like extra work. Which it is. But today is the last day and I told her that once she started she had to see it through. Because of Covid she has had only half a term of going in person for the club, anyway.

She also has her Lambda singing test this morning right after the club. Which may have been on her mind. But this year they are videoing them and her teacher has said she can redone the video until they are comfortable so really, not the same kind of pressure as in the past when she had to sing in front of a live panel. (Which she was fine doing, By the way )

Finally, there is a bake sale AFTER the lambda test and we made cookies yesterday.

We arrived at school and, oops, she had forgotten the cookies! We live 6 minutes away so I said, no problem I will run back and get them. It really wasn’t a problem.

She exploded, and yelled at me “I hope you have a HORRIBLE day” and got out of the car and slammed the door.

Now, her outbursts are fairly normal but she doesn’t normally say this kind of thing - more of “you don’t know how awful my life is”.

This has really set badly with me - I would never have spoken to my mother like that!

Obviously she ran off before I could speak to her about it. In the past, when she has been extremely rude to me, I have sent her away to think about her tone and then discussed it or, in rare cases, punished her by taking away her ipad in the evening (she gets it for about 1 hr a day after homework).

How do I address this - speak to her about it when I pick her up? Punish her (so so tempted to)? Chalk it up to preteen angst and an outburst that is best left? I do try and pick my battles.

But she can often by like Veruka Salt …. I can understand anxiety and using a ‘tone’ because of other things going on in your head, but this really felt beyond the pale.

Of course, in writing it down, it seems quite trivial but my did it leave me with a bad taste in my mouth.

Would welcome any advice.

It sounds like she feels pressured by lots of extra curricular activities. Is this a typical day?

By the way, I would expect to have to remind a 9yo to remember the cookies, especially with and early start and 2 other extra things to think about.

She sounds like she's under a lot of unnecessary pressure for a kid that doesn't cope well with being under pressure? Extra school, singing exams? Why did you agree to the extra 8am classes when she clearly didn't want to do them?!

I would allow her to decide for herself whether she does or does not do these extras. I would also be telling her that if she does do these activities then it's her responsibility to remember the cookies etc. I would not be tolerating her being rude to me. Yes, there should be a consequence for that.

You also sound like you don't really understand her feelings and think she shouldn't be feeling overwhelmed and pressured by stuff: describing how the signing exam "should" be less pressure than last time (I'd find singing on video more pressure personally!). You sound like you are a bit frustrated that she's feeling pressured by all this stuff? She's not you - she feels differently. You really need to focus on that and not expect her to be ok with stuff just cos you would be.

That's alot for a 9 year old, and I think with all the uncertainty around covid and general stress she just might need paring down with the activities.

Nine was when the first batch of hormones started kicking in, so I can certainly empathise with the egg shells.

I'd also just have a quick sense check of whether she's getting enough quality sleep and screen free down time/unstructured activity. Mine tended to be more agreeable once we had trampolining, bike ride, paddleboearding or swimming type activities (God forbid I suggest a walk!)

I'd say slamming a door, and speaking rudely warrants a consequence - but I always make sure they are fed and watered after school before the talk about behaviour, otherwise they explode and you're back to square one.

Yes thank you all. That is helpful advice. I guess the singing / lamda stuff goes on during the school day and she wanted to do it and has for the last 3 years. She definitely doesn't practice at home! She has lessons during the school day.
Forgetting the bake sake stuff was definitely my fault as much as hers and we live really close so I just laughed it off. It was a mandatory school bakesale so not an extra thing...all the children were asked to bring in something.
This 8 am club was definitely a mistake but when she was invited we were in the middle of lockdown and zooming into a screen over breakfast was not a big deal. And neither of us realised it would entail extra work (they do the 'work during the club time, it isnt set as homework...but still..) today was the last day and we have discussed and will definitely not be doing any other pre school clubs. She doesn't do any after school clubs, BTW.

But I do struggle with how to teach her to be able to handle pressure without ever putting her under pressure. If that makes sense? Things like the singing I think gives her confidence when she realises she can pass an exam like that (and she has never expressed worries about the singing exams!) ... the club in the morning is a bit of an honor to be invited to attend as it is the top 6 children of the year group and I thought the approach of having the brightest work on a project might be fun for her...and forgetting the bakesale...well that was a mandatory thing we had to do and I definitely was not mad about having to pop back and get the brownies. I laughed at myself for forgetting too.

But yes thank you for reminding me that she isnt me and still just 9. I will have a word with her about what she said to me but now that I have taken a breath I can see how she probably felt very overwhelmed.

It is really tricky to try and stretch and broaden their horizons with opportunities, but then remember that they may not be ready or actually want them at all.

I'd cut back some of the extra lessons.

Talk to her about what she said, explain it really upset you and if it happens again there will be a consequence.

Some kids just can't take much extra pressure. Her outbursts seem less about rudeness and maybe a bit of a symptom that she's feeling overwhelmed.
I wouldn't punish her, but maybe look at her schedule and see if it is too much.

I have rarely find consequences to be effective, and found talking to work better- but it’s different for each child.

I also struggle with the rudeness and normal outbursts of my teenagers, and at your DD’s age it’s all beginning. My advice from what I’ve learned in teaching and with my own girls, is to fake-talk calmly, de-escalate wherever possible and to understand that they’ll not behave at their very best when overwhelmed (as you’ve said), but it’s a process of learning to cope with these things gradually.

It’s TOUGH and you have my total empathy!!

You’ve got a child with anxiety, but in a single day you’ve got her in a club she has to get up even earlier for to make her do even more work on top of a full day of school work, singing lessons with an exam, plus she’s had to contribute to a bake sale and you forgot the cookies. That’s a ridiculous schedule for a child, let alone one seeing a therapist for anxiety. And she hardly had the tantrum of the century. She had a minor tantrum due to stress. I’d be looking at treating her with kindness and trying to reduce her workload, not punishing her even more!

Good advice above. You can't get a good result from a stroppy pre-teen in the heat of the moment, but you do have to start teaching your kids about emotional control and looking at the triggers. Not blowing up and reacting yourself is sometimes hard, but a good test of modeling behaviour!