My 12 year old is being horrible.

[BackieJerkhart]

It's really getting to me. He has been horrible all summer. He just arrogantly refuses to do anything he doesn't feel like doing and he knows I can't do anything about it. He is currently grounded for 3 weeks because of his behaviour last Monday morning. I have taken his phone off him and am only allowing PlayStation when he has shown me good behaviour. When he is feeling compliant he is lovely, he will empty the dishwasher (his one and only chore) and will sit and have a cuddle and chat with me but if he doesn't want to do something (like get out of bed!) he just refuses and lies in bed until midday. I told him all summer that the week before school starts back he will be going back to a fixed bedtime and getting up at the time he will have to for school. He is starting secondary school on Friday and it's a much earlier start than he is used to for primary school. I woke him this morning and he just refused to get up. I opened his curtain and window, took his duvet and pillow off him, tickled him, sang badly out of tune but he just said no he wasn't getting up. What do I do if he refuses once school starts? I feel totally helpless and he knows it.

Well we're back and he's furious. Not that we went to the cinema but that I took all the controllers for the PS4 and the TV and my tablet. He was in tears saying I left him alone for 4 hours with nothing to do. I asked if he had even emptied the dishwasher. No he hadn't. I told him he had the option to get up this morning and choose between coming out with the rest of us or staying at home and playing PS4 and he says he didn't know those were the options. I said it shouldn't matter that he doesn't know what his privileges will be and that he should behave regardless. He doesn't get it. He says it doesn't affect me that he lies in bed. I have told him I'm not interested in speaking about it while he is in such an aggressive mood.

But the thing is this is true!

I know that's why it's scary!

Call his bluff. If he goes out without permission let him - wi fi off and favourite things (electronics?) gone from his room when he gets back, something you like and he doesn't cooked for tea, otherwise no reaction at all.

I'd leave my nearly 12 year old home alone if she refused to get out of bed (she is used to being home alone through choice for a few hours anyway), but atm she wouldn't dare... Perhaps it will happen - nearly 10 to DS can be stroppy and will probably be bigger than me by 12, so it may happen with him - I will leave him and go out, but have already pre trained the kids in being home alone while they're still compliant.

Sorry, missed the second page.

Did you tell him his choices? I'm a bit confused now!

His choice this morning was to get up when he was called or not to get up! If he had gotten up he would have been able to come with us or stay at home with console. But he didn't. He has no gadgets in his room, they're all down in the kitchen and he is the least interested in food I have known a person to be. He would live off cereal.

That was really mean to take all the devices with you. So he stayed in bed and missed out on the cinema: fair enough. But you didn't say there would be nothing for him at home if he didn't get up. Very mean. No wonder he didn't feel like emptying the dishwasher.

No actually it wasn't mean. Being grounded in my house means device ban. He has been allowed on it a few times when he has been making an effort but he wasn't making any effort to be pleasant or behave this morning so why would I leave him in the house with all the devices?? He would love that. That's why he wasn't bothered when I told him we were going to the cinema, he expected to be able to sit and play the PS4.

If he wants to be part of a family and to benefit from being in that community, he needs to contribute. How would he react to a more grown up talk (when he's calm) about how family/communities work?
He gets a home, food, emotional support, games, clothes etc. In return he needs to contribute what he can. He's too young to earn the money for those things, so he helps out the providers by his support - empties dishwasher, speaks politely, discusses options for what to do each day etc.

Would he understand it as a kind of contractual give & take? More like a logical business deal than the emotional obligation of family life? It can work well with some teens. Makes them feel more grown up, appeals to logic rather than emotion, and shows them how they are part of things.

Try not to get into a detailed 'tit for tat' discussion, stick more to general principles. Then discuss if/when he could lie in (Saturday mornings?) and when not.

I do approach it in that way with him kick and at the time he agrees and says all the right things but it lamas though he forgets it all as soon as the conversation is over. I feel like I am constantly reminding him to pull his fair share and treat us with respect. He gets annoyed at being reminded, will skulk off up to his room then come down and apologise and then half an hour later he is speaking really nasty to me or his brother.

I guess we're lucky that both DC are early risers.

It sounds a bit infantile, but advise should his behaviour continue, you will be making a chart like you would do for younger children, subsequently he'll be treated like a younger child with earlier bed time, plus other sanctions.

Advise if he wants to be treated like the young man he is, then his behaviour needs to reflect that. One sanction could be, if you drop him at school, you'll do so as close to school as possible and treat him like a young child going to school.

At this age they're a mess of hormones, with that I think they revert to the stage of testing boundaries, so you really need to follow up on 'actions have consequences.' Hopefully the threat Alone of the school example will have him being more compliant.

I don't know what jobs you have around the house, possible add on further chores if he continues to misbehave. You've done a great job showing him that if he behaves he'll get rewarded. Hopefully it'll sink in deep and this phase should pass. I definitely think he's seeing how far he can push you, he's found out that you won't tolerate it, so whilst it feels like Groundhog Day, hopefully the cogs are turning and he'll treat you with the respect you deserve.

I know it's a work night but from me to you. I'll get thinking of possible punishments. It could be nerves, like avoidance, as soon as he's there he'll realise it isn't half bad, an exciting new chapter has begun for all of you.

I will keep at it though.

I was actually considering some kind of chart but thought it a bit silly for a 12 year old. Maybe he needs to see that behaving like a child gets him treated like one.

I would be honest and straight forward though - you can't move the goal posts constantly.

Did he know not getting up meant being grounded? If he did know then what you did was fair, but if he didn't understand the choice he was making it wasn't!

Its one thing to punish rule breaking by grounding and removing privileges, but another to give the illusion of choice but dump extra punishment on them unannounced for not making the choice you wanted...

Sounds as though he thought he was choosing to stay home and you hadn't told him that choice came with grounding? Or did he know that?

I would let him lie in bed all day if he wants. He'll be different when school starts. I also think it was over the top to take all the controllers. Could he contact you at all?

He's still very young!

Not mean in the slightest!

There's a whole lot of push and pull in this behaviour. It's teenaged 'you can't make me, I'm the boss now' mixed up with a lot of getting mummy's attention and wanting to control her.

He tried a power play on you this morning. You didn't give it attention, you didn't let him have control, you didn't reward him with a lovely time laying in bed with all the devices. Very well done. He needs to realise that this is where social respect comes in. You're the one paying the bills. You're the owner of the devices. They're privileges that are earned and if he's unpleasant and unco operative and doesn't do his bit at home then he doesn't get those privileges.

Really good way to have handled him, and that you got back to tears shows you that was not what he wanted his behaviour to achieve. If a behaviour works, it gets repeated. If a behaviour doesn't work then why bother, instinctively you try something else.

you will both get through this!

It sounds like he is going to be challenging so my best advice is stay calm and pick your battles.
If he wants to stay in bed all day let him. That is not really an important battle.
Doing jobs around the house is - but you have to make it really clear what you want when ie/ You need to have emptied the dishwasher by 1.00 PM, if it's not done no consoles. If it gets to 12.30 give a calm gentle reminder - " just reminding you it's half twelve and I need the dishwasher done by one"
Teenagers live in their own worlds.

Your post reminded me of a mum raising two very sweet but very difficult teenagers had a great line in a hug and a cheery, sympathetic, "it sucks it went that way babe! Better luck tomorrow." and moving straight on.

She also had a policy in her house that if anyone ran away the procedure was a) call the police and report it and b) immediately order pizza. Partly to give a treat/attention to herself and the sibling which the runner really resented and avoided allowing, and partly because the child could not resist being straight back to eat pizza.

Teenagers are basically toddlers with extra gob factor.

They crave security and approval underneath all the bluff and bluster.

A fair bit of this is possibly worry about changing school but you can tell him from me behaviour like that in school will get him a big fat nowhere with any teacher like me, other than a lovely, thrilling day spent in isolation.

Keep at it.

Change the wifi code daily until chores are done.
I had one mum who actually cut the plugs off the PS4 and all other electronics in her son's room when the console was removed from its confiscated place. She wasn't taking any crap from her lad and he knuckled down in the end.

Eventually they do twig on that it's far, far easier to tow the party line than rebel.

Did he know not getting up meant being grounded

He was already grounded and will be for the next 2 weeks due to his behaviour last week. He just assumed that me leaving the house meant he would be able to sit on PS4 because I don't normally take the devices with me but grounded does mean no devices here so it wasn't extra punishment for not getting out of bed.

Could he contact you at all?

Yes we have a landline and he knows my mobile number off by heart.

Ah ok - that clarification does make it fair given he knew he wasn't allowed to use the electronics, so any use of them while you were out would have been rule breaking. Fair enough then!

I do agree pick your battles, but once picked then yep, you have to stick to your guns!

Why is he grounded for 3 weeks OP? Sorry if you've already said.
I think leaving him in the house was fair but if you didn't say that you're taking all the gadgets then it seems like he didn't really know what his choices were.

It sounds like a nightmare, I've got a 15 month old so I'm a long way off these battles but it sounds like you're doing all you can, he will probably change and be more social (not with you, with peers!) once he starts secondary school.

It's hard to know which ones to pick! I will sit down with him again this evening and remind him of what I expect and that there will be consequences for poor behaviour. He will ask what the consequences are. he has nothing coming up that he wants to attend. The only carrot I have is that good behaviour earns him console/tv time.

Why is he grounded for 3 weeks OP? Sorry if you've already said.

His attitude leading up to last Monday morning was appalling, he had a friend over for a sleepover Sunday evening and he mocked me to show off, tortured his brother to show off, gave me attitude every time I spoke to him and then when his friend left the next morning and I spoke to him about his attitude (that had carried on in the morning) he just gave me more back so I said he couldn't attend his club that he was going to. He had been warned at the start of the summer that his attendance at this club was dependant on good behaviour and he just hadn't behaved all summer. Then he ran out of the house when I was distracted and threw a tantrum when he came back so I grounded him for 3 weeks.

Does sound very difficult - my DD will be 12 in two weeks, and when she (once) did the mocking me to show off in front of friends thing I wanted and raced at her then and there and let her know that one more tiny thing and the friend's parents would be called immediately, and she wouldn't have another sleep over for a year - DD cried and admitted she was being mean to me because her friend was mocking her about being sent up to bed (to watch a film in the TV/ DVD we carry into the bedroom if they're having a sleepover) at 10pm. We agreed the friend is an arse and not to invite her again...

Can you do a clean slate thing tomorrow? Not giving electronics back but agreeing you are on the same side and asking how he'd like to speak the last week of his holiday (being clear electronics are not an option as that ship has sailed)? If all he wants is lie ins maybe you can meet half way in that, given he is still on holiday. Bedtime returned to routine but let him lie in, knowing that if you and ds2 want to go out before he's up he'll be home alone electronics free and have to read a book

DD has to be up at 5:45 in term time but I'm not making her get up at that time even one day before she has to! I get up at 5am for early shifts but don't start getting up at 5am on my days off or when I'm on lates, so no need for kids to either IMO.

wanted and raced = ranted and raved