8 year old DD hygiene/behaviour

[DontOpenDeadInside]

Dd2 is 8 (9 in June). She's always been difficult, had counseling sessions at school for over a year due to low self esteem/anxiety. But she is just so stubborn. She refuses to brush her teeth, has now not brushed them for 3/4 days (I've lost count). Other than to pin her down there's no way to make her. I tell her what will happen to her teeth if she doesn't look after them, she doesn't care. I tell her she's not allowed sweet things if she's not brushing them... Doesn't care.

I find it hard to punish her when she is naughty. I cannot send her to her room as she shares with dd3. She doesn't care about toys etc. The only thing she is bothered about is the pc and the Roblox game. But if i ban her from it, she just follows me around saying "i bored" "there's nothing to do" etc driving me crazy. I suggest things but she says no to everything.

She won't brush her hair most days so goes to school looking a right mess (which isn't good for her self esteem)
I'm just lost on what to do. She's not interested in spending time with me. I offer to play board games etc but she says no, and the few times we do it ends up with her crying because she's not winning. When i tell her off for stuff she cries and says "no-one loves me etc" "you like dd3 better than me"
Just tonight i told her to do her teeth, she said no so i said well no sweets or pc tomorrow and she swore at me! We are a non swearing house so that's pretty bad. So now she's not allowed on the pc for a week, so I've got 1 week of her moaning she's bored. She would refuse to do chores (again i can't physically force her) just nothing seems to get through to her.

I make her sound awful, but she's such a loving, intelligent girl when she's not in one of her moods, which are getting more and more often.

Sorry, took me so long to type that on tiny tablet that missed your posts about sensory issues op. Hope you can get your DD the support she needs, she sounds as though she has had a tough time of it of late. If she likes arts and crafts maybe some sort of therapy using creative techniques might help her? for you both.

Don't worry too much about labels OP. If she does have something diagnosable a label will help her get the right support, and to understand and accept herself better. Without a label children risk being seen as defiant, badly behaved etc and in need of correction (eg being held down and forced ). No-one is going to make any diagnosis lightly.

There are lots of reasons why your DD might be having these issues, a neurodevelopmental condition such as ASC or ADHD is just one, it isn't a done deal.

Suggest taking a two pronged approach of seeking CAMHS input and trying some of the more measured approaches from posters here.

Rule in my house is if either my 8yo dd or my 5 yo neice refuse to brush their teeth, either I or dh will do it for them. I will be firm without being violent, but don't stand for any nonsense. I'm not afraid to take away treats/toys/activities and they know it so they don't argue.

I know of the scheme you are taking about and it's great but counsellors/children's therapists (I am one myself so no disrespect obviously!) Don't always know the full range of issues and know when to refer on. Place2be is unpaid volunteers who often do it in the hope of getting a paid job somewhere...therefore possibly less experienced. You need a proper CAMHS assessment maybe a psychologist. I'd be wondering about some kind of pathological demand avoidance. The lack of washing etc could be some kind of control over other feelings. It really needs to be dealt with by someone with experience and some counsellors might be very experienced in this buts it's not guaranteed so I'd suggest pushing for a proper assessment first.

Different toothpaste such as strawberry if she doesn't like mint?
Don't let her go on the computer until she's brushed her teeth?
Tangle teezer brush and detangling spray if very tangly. I suppose she knows it will be sorer if it gets really tangly and take ages but will half to be done in the end.

As soon as I read your OP, I started wondering if your DD has some sensory processing issues. Is she fussy about what clothes she'll wear too? There's a link here to a site about sensory processing issues.

I have ASD. I was diagnosed last year at 34 but looking back I had signs right from being a small child. I'm not saying your DD has ASD but I agree with the pp that there's something neuro-atypical going on. Even though I wasn't diagnosed until I was an adult, I've found having a diagnosis very helpful. I finally understand why I am the way I am. I always knew I was different, now I know why. I have additional support at work now. I had counselling tailored to meet my needs. Most of all, I'm far kinder to myself and am willing to recognise that my limits are different to most people's. My behaviour at school was generally very good. I saved my meltdowns for home.

An assessment could help to identify why your DD has specific issues. It would help you to understand her needs and how to meet those needs. It should help her growing up too. i would definitely be raising it a school/with CAMHS if I were you.

Has this all got worse since the injections? Could it be a side effect of them?

You can brush a child's teeth without hurting them. And I'd suggest getting a child friendly mouthwash so if some days are just too much you can get her to do that.

Also you said when you forced her her teeth/gums bled, be careful for gum disease.

Are these her adult teeth or still milk teeth?

I feel like the longer you let her get away without brushing, the more of an issue it will become and harder it will be

her early puberty surely could be the reason for her feelings about her body and self, and her teenagerish behaviour.
I have seen many a thread on here about young teens going through phases of not washing etc.
If she didn't previously appear to have any sensory issues when younger I think that the asd etc suggestions are a red herring and you should be focusing on how difficult it must be to go through puberty at her age.

And I agree with those suggesting love bombing rather than punishment.

It is hard to stay fair to three children, but sometimes to be fair one needs a phase of more attention, and it all balance out over time.

Also, are there any aunts or auntie figures in her life? There was something on women's hour this morning about research showing that close relationships with other adult females (as well as mum) are very important for girls. Might be worth listening to on iplayer.

Good luck with it all!

Has she had her adrenal gland and thyroid checked out in relation to her early puberty? Disorders of these can cause emotional problems too.
You should have mentioned her medical problems in your original op.

So Sunshine you'd force her to brush her teeth if she had anxiety/low self esteem but not if she has precocious puberty? Because that info was in the op. I thought it was long enough and explained enough without putting her medical history in.

The injections are not causing it, though I've noticed when she's due one, her mood does dip a bit. Seeing her paediatrician next month about that. She has been like this since she was 2/3. Looking at that list posted above, there's not much on it that relates to DD really.

It wasn't in the original op - in the original op you were just going on about what a naughty girl she was

But yes I would still force her because she'll be crying a lot more when she's having to have her teeth extracted/fillings done!

She's had all tests relating to the PP, not sure if they check thyroid adrenal glands as routine. (They did bloods, x-ray, MRI and ultrasound of womb)

To me that's screaming sensory issues and struggling with transitions (stopping thing 1 to do thing 2). Reading the out of synch child and The Explosive child may help.

For teeth, I'd ask whether it's the brush or the paste that's the problem. Water isn't necessary. Try a tiny smear of paste. Cuddle her on your lap, then let her brush or you do it. Get her to pretend to brush a toys teeth to see what she does.
Also consider short hair that doesn't really need much combing?

I totally and utterly agree with GruffaloPants.

The lack of hygiene sounds like it's just a 'symptom' or a way to express how she's feeling. Forcing her to do it doesn't address the root cause and is likely to cause other issues.

I also agree it sounds very much like she's struggling with sensory issues.

I would look into the cause of the sensory issues alongside looking into peaceful parenting approaches. Children do not need to be forced or be punished for non-compliance, there are much more enjoyable and easier ways to parent.

Aside from the issues, does your DD seem happy?

P.S. You don't sound awful to me at all, you sound like you really care about doing the best for your DD.

This morning has been much better, she got up, had breakfast, got dressed, brushed her teeth and let me brush her hair with not one tantrum.
This is what she does, so I'll let her off for good behaviour (sometimes i do) but when i don't she goes back to tantrumming (sp).

I wonder if the precocious puberty has frightened her to the extent that she is trying to reject what her body is doing. Like if she ignores it, pretends it isn't happening and doesn't respond to what her body needs, it will stop and she will be able to remain a child.

Being tough, stern or harsh will harm not help her. She needs understanding and support.

There are a few good books about sensory issues
The Out of Sync Child, is worth a read

Get some Oranurse toothpaste.
She needs a referral for a full assessment - it's not about a label, she needs help.

Have you tried natural consequences rather then punishments unrelated? I found it was far better to let mine learn from experience rather then removing iPads etc.. although i will still do that at times.

Example- DS aged 4 refused to put on coat or shoes, it became a right battle and stressed me out before outings. Just once i told him that it was really cold outside and wearing his coat was to keep him warm. He refused, lost his iPad access but this time i decided to take the coat and let him learn through experience. Two minutes walking he sulked and admitted it was freezing and he needed to put his coat on. We didn't have that battle ever again. It was a revelation!

Teeth cleaning, i tell mine if they don't do them then no sweet foods or drinks as their teeth will rot. Dentist visits have a pretty word and the dentist will usually lean on them about it. I tell mine it's not nice when your teeth rot, they really hurt and the dentist may have to pull them out too.

Hair brushing, i have boys so this is just a suggestion but you can see the consequence really is logical. I'd first explain that school expect smart appearance and if she can't brush her hair it will eventually get matted, resulting in me painfully removing the matted areas or her having short hair to avoid them. Her choice.

Mine would often mess at bed time and be exhausted the next day, i started deducting minutes from bed times the next day if they messed about and it soon stopped.

I'm not perfect, it's not a fool proof method but it really can help.

Look up Hands in Hand Parenting, a totally different, life changing, family changing approach.

Haven't read the full thread, but has Brownies been mentioned/tried? You can get craft classes in some places. My DSs used to go to art and pottery. Try your local arts centre (if you have one).