Single sex or co-ed??

[Heartofgold25]

Please can someone who has some experience of schools and teens advise me on whether single sex schools are better for girls or whether co-ed is best.... dh and I are completely at opposite ends when it comes to agreeing.

My main concerns for single sex is bullying, bitchy girls and not being able to communicate well with boys on a friendship level.

Plus points: focus on studies, lack of worries about appearance

My main concerns for co-ed is my dd giving up sports because it is 'embarrassing' in front of boys, this may not be an issue but would be pretty devastating as she loves sports. Worrying about her appearance when she should be studying, or thinking about boys rather than focus on her subjects and getting involved in relationships at a younger age.

Plus points: Good communication skills and friendships with boys, and being able to have different friends of either sex.

Any advice on this well known controversial subject would be much appreciated :) Thank you

I don't think there's a right or wrong - it depends completely on the school and the dc.
My 3 all went to single sex schools, but it wasn't a factor in the choice, it just happened that the best of the schools we had a realistic choice of getting in to, at the time, happened to be single sex.
I have 1 ds and 2 dds. None have been bullied - can't see why this is anymore or less of an issue at either a single sex or co-ed tbh. There will be some level of bullying in all schools at some point, IMO, I don't think it has anything to do with the argument for or against coed / single sex.
I haven't seen any evidence of girls not being able to communicate with boys on a friendship level either. Then again, my dc all have friends outside of school, from hobbies / activities they do - as do all their friends as far as I can tell.
I also went to a girls school and had no issues with this.
Not sure why she should want to give up sports - if you love sport, you love sport. Lots of girls in my dds' school don't, but I think that is a teen thing anyway... there are no boys there to blame.

The intensity of girls schools is well researched, and I went to an all girls school and it was exactly that. Some girls had a horror of a time, I can't help but worry about my dds being in that situation. It was awful for the pretty ones that is true unless you were very careful. Bullying does happen at all schools but I think possibly co-eds offer a more balanced setting....with an opportunity to choose friends that are boys if the girls in your class are are a nightmare. I do want my dd to concentrate on her school work, and wondered how the girls fair in the a mixed setting.

My dds do not have brothers, and although we have lots of friends with boys, we seem them socially it is not quite the same as working with them day to day on joint projects and studies. I would really like my dds to have positive relationships with boys...or is it wishful thinking with a class full of fresh hormones...

It is good to know your dds have been very happy in their girls school, I think it does work particularly well for some girls. Academically I think they do better, and I am trying to get to the reason why...is it because they are more focused and there is less distraction? Or because they are not at the mercy of any sexism?? I will keep pondering, thanks for your msg :)

I'm currently reading Everyday Sexism by Laura Bates. It's terrifying. Yes girls schools are intense hothouses with a lot of bullying. But my experience of two girls schools was largely positive. I was on the fence about education for my daughters (who are both still tinies) but having read this book, no way in hell are they going co-ed.

My sister, on the other hand, hated a girls school and went co-ed at 15 - right decision for her. But honestly, read this book, I really don't think I could send them to a co-ed secondary school after having done so.

I went to a co-ed school but girls only sixth form. Although I wasn't there for very long it was clear that the girls had benefitted, I would say specifically in terms of maths and science where many girls excelled, whereas the girls tended to be shy in these subjects at my old school.
There were close links with the local boys' school and we ended up seeing them a fair bit, so didn't miss out socially. Yes there was some bullying among younger years but no more than in any other school, possibly the (mostly female) teacher body were more aware of it and better at tackling it tbh.
For girls I think there can be clear advantages especially if your daughter is interested in science. However it's all about the individual school at the end of the day,

Dc are at coed and there is a strong girls games ethos with county and national squad members.

Oh and at the co-ed school I don't ever recall us doing sport with or in front of boys. So a non-issue.

Proceeding....I think you have just hit the nail on the head and directly on my main concern with co-ed schools, I really like the idea of mixed schools...but..

Are the girls in co-ed at the receiving end of lots of sexism day in and day out? Or are the boys generally respectful of the girls and their abilities? I want my dd to grow up strong and proud, and to achieve her potential. I do not want her aspirations to be tempered by anything. Not the teachers who think science is for boys, nor the maths teacher who spends longer with the boys because he thinks they will need the grades for the 'breadwinning' jobs they will need (??) nor the boys who think it is okay to objectify her (and they may well be a few that do) I can't bear the idea of it.
But, she does need to learn to deal with this, and she does not have brothers whom can teach her....and she is quite reserved by nature, so going to a girls school could kill of her ability to chat to boys and be mates.

Thanks for bearing with me on this one x

Liz that is great to know the girls are still achieving great things in sports at co-eds. I know sports is generally more tricky as girls get older, but it doesn't need to be that way. I hope she will enjoy it more than I did as a teen.

I went to an all girls school back in the 80's and loved it. I don't think there was probably anymore bullying there than there would have been at a mixed school. We were able to try everything because it was there and we could. there was no that's a boys subject attitude. I was stunned when I turned up for my degree course with Maths and physics A levels, to be told by other people on my course that I couldn't have those subjects, because girls didn't do them (by both sexes!!). I developed the attitude that I could take up any opportunity offered - not just those seen as those more suitable for women.
BUT I did have a hugely active social life, and mixed with boys outside school in a variety of settings, and not just my exact age. I think that is hugely important. By the time I got to uni I was confident with dealing with men, and could work with them and socialise with them on my terms. This continued into the work place.
I have sent both my DCs to single sex secondary schools (one DS and one DD), and whilst the schools in themselves were the best fit for both DCs, the single sex element was very important to me. Another point - I think boys and girls learn best in totally different ways, and should be taught by people who appreciate that, and in environments where it is possible to do so.

With apologies to Laura Bates, the following is taken from page 105 of her book:

"I am a secondary science teacher and a form tutor in Yorkshire. I witness on a daily basis the girls in my classes being called "whore" "bitch "slag" "slut" as a matter of course, heckled if they dare to speak in class, their shirts being forcibly undone and their skirts being lifted and held by groups of boys, (I WANT TO EMPHASISE THAT THIS IS MORE OFTEN THAN NOT A DAILY EVENT, AND OFTEN BORDERS ON ASSAULT). On a daily basis I am forced to confiscate mobile phones as boys are watching hardcore pornography videos in lessons and I have noticed sadly that as time has gone on the girls in my classes have become more and more reserved and reluctant to draw attention to themselves."

That particularly testimony goes on to describe a situation involving a particular girl who is on the way to leaving the school.

I completely get that girls need to learn how to cope in the real world, and deal with conflict etc., etc. but you know what, I'm just fine. And I was in single sex education from the age of 11 to 18. Remembering what I was like as a teenager, being in a single sex environment made me better able to life skills, it didn't inhibit their development.

Sorry Heartofgold, I'm now firmly banging that nail into a piece of granite - I knew all this stuff, I've read the stats, but reading it all in one place in a concentrated manner is truly shocking and makes me want to home educate to be honest.

*better able to achieve life skills

Sorry - my levels of anger on this topic have been raised to a level I haven't known since I was in my early 20s. I think spending a number of years pregnant, breastfeeding, renovating a house and trying to keep myself showered meant I forgot about this stuff for a minute.

OMG Proceeding that is a truly shocking posting ~ thank you very much for posting it. I don't think there can be a single mother or woman out there, that could read that and not find it breathtaking. I am just about to order the book now.

I am not at all surprised that you would not want your dds to experience that level of sexism/assault/sexual bullying ~ I think sexism doesn't even cover it. I am shocked and just abit stunned. Please tell me that is a one off...????

Actually proceeding, that school should have been closed down and the head sacked. I don't think you can possibly run a school with that level of abuse...

Nope, not a one off, completely endemic. Honestly, spend the tenner, buy the book. Read it with your DH. If you don't want to buy it, at least read her website. The passage I quoted is from Chapter 3 which is 40 pages that contains story upon statistic upon testimonial like the one I posted above.

"According to a 2010 survey by YouGov for the End Violence Against Women Coalition, nearly one in three sixteen- to eighteen- year old girls said they have experienced unwanted sexual touching at school. A huge 71 per cent of that age group said they heard sexual name calling (such as 'slag' or 'slut') towards girls at least several times a week."

That's from page 100. I better stop quoting now or I'll cause MNHQ to be done for copyright infringement and I really need to do some work but you get the gist.

If you do decide to go co-ed, I'd be questioning the school VERY closely about their policies in this regard and becoming an over involved parent!!

I think Laura Bates did a webchat here a while back - I'm going to dig it out. We need to get her back for another one.