Total freeplay at SIL's nursery/pre-school. what ???

[Oblomov]

Is this right. Have I missed something. Went to see my lovely sil at weekens. she has 2 children , like us, hers are 6 and 4. ours are 6 and 1.5
she tells me that her niece who is due to start school in sept, does total freeplay at nursery. it is a free place that she started mornings and now is at pm aswell.
if she wants to do painting and only painting whilst she is there, she can.

apparently it is the new government initiative. and all the parents think it is silly. it wasn't like this last year, said my sil.
and not for her ds. who was allowed to choose, but also had a much more structured day:
first sing time, then playdo, then you have a cjhoice between stickle bricks or home corner etc tec.
then he was incourage dto do some things that he maybe wasn't so keen on. gently encoursged ' now its time for ....' which is good, becasue they then discovered that he had very poor finger muscles and they encouraged him to use playdoh - which he didn't wnat to, but when he got to school, his pencil writing skills were better thaan they would ahve previously been.

so I thinking, gosh this is news to me. thats not what i want for ds2. who is 1.5 and has been going to a private nursery for a few months now.

not to worry says sil, hopefully it will change next year.

from ds2's nursery sheet, he gets outside play, potato printing, musical toys, books, pushalong toys.
so def a variety.

but are the private nurseries not allowed a timetable / structured day now ?
is it free-for-all everywhere ? becasue i don't want that !

thanks goodness its her last year says sil, and that she will get structure when she starts school. but shouldn't she be getting structure now ?
and what about my ds2 ?

her dd, my niece.

I thought the national curriculum for nursery age children was geared towards free play?

Private nurseries are often criticised by Ofsted for structuring their days too highly.

I'm not for or against either method, btw. Free play works beautifully for many children, allowing them to explore their own interests at their own pace, while for others (like my DS) it is a nightmare, and just means they run around like headless chickens all day feeling stressed and confused.

Free play???

Whoever would have believed it-dont they know from leaving the womb they need structure.

The rpeschool both dds attended/attend (currently 5.6 and 3) have free play and both have thrived on it admitdley they have a snack time where they are asked to sit together and if they wish to join in at story/sing time they can do (not forced too) it has suited dd2 very well as she loves to do playdoh/painting/playing outside as dd1 always liked dressing up/craft table etc it is their time to play in my opinion

escuse typos battery about to die on laptop

I know that my DD got a lot out of the organized group games - parachute games, please mister crocodile etc as it was the best 'joining in with the other children' she did until she got more confidence. It really helped her build friendships. If she'd just been left to do playdoe all morning, I don't think she'd have had such a full experience.
Also, that circle/carpet/storytime can be quite a good skill for them to be learning before starting school.

so is it total freeplay then ?
because my niece sits and paints and does nothing else. NOTHING. other than painting. but thats her choice. but that can't be right cn it? my sil says she wishes they were atleast able to encourage her to try playing with ...... playdoh - book corner, whatever. but staff are unable to.

and if thats what you want for your children. it may well suit many children. and many parents might deliberately choose that. thats finw with me. i don't mind thta.

but to have it enforced on yuo. all places have to do this. new gov inititative. was how my sil explained it.

but i hadn't realised thta my chosen private nursery ( which he is at for 2 days) would also be that .

i don't want that. i want a bit of structure. i want him to be encouraged to try things.

Well, although free play is part of the early years national curriculum and it is, therefore, gov't policy, it is a bit lazy of the nursery staff to say they 'can't do anything about it' - at all?

My DS used to be very rigid about the things he would do (play with the train set; career around outside). He rarely painted or sat down to do anything constructive. The nursery noticed this and encouraged him to try out new things. He was never forced, but he was encouraged, jollied along, whatever.

It sounds like the nursery isn't that proactive.

(Btw, on the other end of the scale you have these ridiculous pre-preps where they hot house kids in French at the age of 2, just to make parents feel they are getting their money's worth, methinks)

On the ipod now so typing will be as bad! If they see a child playing alone continuosly then they would encourage playing with others, also they do not have same activities outeach day eg painting may only be out 3 days a week, snack time they are encouraged to sit and eat socially together and I would say 99% of the time the children do join in at sitting on thecarpet at story/sing time. Ofsted do encourage free play and it is mentioned alot (I am chair of the preschool so read all the visitor reports)

under the EYFS, they do free play a lot of the time, but there's always (I think) Circle Time, Story Time, singing etc, and some structured activity.

IME it really works. Letting them choose for themselves totally eases them into the nursery environment- and a good nursery will always, always encourage kids to try new stuff and stretch themselves a bit.

I only wish the Learning Through Play ethos stretched through Reception to Y2 as well. I was quite sceptical about it, but having worked in a pre school setting and seeing my dcs thrive in another, I'm a total convert

The preschool that ds and dd were at has freeplay and has done at least since ds started there nearly 4 years ago. There are different activities out but children can choose to do whatever they want to. There is circle time at the end and children are encouraged to do different things, but it is at the child's pace. There was also snack time in a kitchen area which happened at a set time.

I used to help there one morning a week and It seemed to work very well.

"my niece sits and paints and does nothing else. NOTHING. other than painting. but thats her choice."

She chose painting because she is interested in painting. She must be spending hours doing it. Some concentration! She's choosing what to paint a picture of, what brush she needs, what colour is best for her purpose. I hope she was allowed to chose her paper. She has to position her body so her arm can make the movements to let her fingers manipulate the brush. She's creating something. Putting down on paper what's in her mind, expressing her thoughts, recreating past experiences. Are there examples of famous pictures around the art area? Images from around the world to inspire her creativity? Letters, numbers, shapes? Is she encouraged to write her name on her work? Is she asked questions about her picture to clarify her thought processes? Is she studying the way the paint mixes and makes new colours? Can she see the different textures? Maybe there are other brushes she can use? Sponges? Fingers? Are there other children about she is interacting with?

The freeplay system done well is wonderful. It means that children can go to an activity that interests them, and when they are interested in something they learn better. You need to make all the areas educational though. All the areas of development(physical,creative, numeracy etc) can be helped in just about every interest area(role-play, construction, creative etc) of the nursery.
Bingo balls with the water tray to help with numbers, Notepads in the play house to practice pencil control, Clipboards in the garden to get boys who like to move all the time drawing.
There's nothing worse than seeing a child be made to sit for a story they don't want. They don't listen, they fidget, they talk, the teacher gets disrupted, the other children get distracted, the child learns nothing, the other children learn less, the teacher gets frustrated.

I have to give up writing now. I could talk for hours on this, so typing it is annoyingly limiting. Long live well thought out freeplay!

I am not totally against free play, you know. I can of course see the benefits of it. And it must sui some natured children more than others.
And I hear what Tiggy is saying - what a nice post - they must talk to her about her pictures, stimulating her more. I know they do this becasue sil said.
BUT, and I also know thta it is not beenficial to a child to make them do an activity they don't want to - theres plenty of time in later life for that - having to do lessons at school & having to go to work for the next 40 years, when you don't want to. we all have to do lots of things in life that we don't want to. but that doesn't need to be enforced onto such young children yet.
BUT, my niece does nothing else. No bingo numbers, no home corner, to interacting with other children in the form of games. or any other sort of interaction actually. painting continually is a very solitary activity.
she is friendly. and has friends. but i can't see that this is being stimulated here. infact i suspect that there are probably 8-10 other areas thta should be being stimulated that are not.physical, numeracy, role play. all those other important areas that a child really should be experiencing. my niece doesn't. And they don't encourage her atleast to try.
AT ALL. NOT AT ALL.
How can that be right. How can thta be stimulating all her senses, all her skills etc tec.
I am sorry but I just can't accept that this is right.

I would go as far as saying that this is laziness on nursery staff's part. if you don't have the skills to gently encourage, a child to try more than one activity, one stimulation, out od numerous. the whole time they are under you care. then i think the care is lacking.

and if they are being stringent ot the governments inititative. then i thik they are doing it a bit too much to the 't'.

if my son prefers painting or drawing or stikkle bricks, i want him to primarily be able to do this. but i also want him ot be encouraged to atleast try all the areas of activity.

if you only ate one food type. we would tell you that you needed ballance. variety. why is only doing one activity allowed.
it shouldn't be.

In most nurseries the children have free play whihc IMO is a good thing. It means they aren't forced to do anything they are uncomfortable with. This however doesn't mean they can't be encouraged to do other stuff if that is the parent's wish.

DS(3) has 'free play' at nursery, kids are never forced to do any activity. They do have story time though and song time - I think thats it. Snack time is not compulsory. Im not sure about if they ALL have to go to the gym hall if thats the thing for the day - possibly.

Dont see any problem with it.

Hi Oblomov
Im with you on this
I think free play is a great thing, its great for kids to choose what they would like to do

But I dont think it does them any harm if an adult says "Hey, we are going to make X now, come on everyone" or whatever

I homeed my kids because they couldnt cope at school (SENs). They do have a lot of free choice, but if I let them be entirely free to decide chaos and autsism obsessions would rule - not good!

I think a bit of adult direction is good to bring the children along in their learning

I agree with Tiggy BUT I see what you're saying re: laziness and yes, it does sound like there is some element of that. Free play can often be used as an excuse - 'oh they have to choose, we can't do anything' - by nursery staff who don't want to spend time encouraging children.

It's perfectly possible to encourage children to try other activities within the spirit of free play. Likewise to have some form or shape to the day with periods where they are expected to join in, like mealtimes, or as they get older story time/circle time.

How long has your niece been at the nursery? Maybe painting is something she feels safe and secure doing and in time she'll be more confident about trying other activites.

If I were still working in a nursery (which I don't for many reasons but lazy fellow staff were a factor) then I would be doing some obs to see what she is doing, identifying activities she might be interested in based on why I deduce she likes painting, looking at different schemas to see whether she's exhibiting any particular one and other activities within that schema she might try and then presenting the options to her.

I'm also a fan of varying the environment so the same activities are not always available. So if we say painting is creative, mark making and messy play I would ensure there were alteratives for all of those and take the painting away for a couple of weeks. Rotation of activities is a good thing and prevents children becoming too focused on one particular activity.

It's not totally down to nursery staff though and good communication about what's happening at home/what the child enjoys also helps the nursery providing appropriate activities. So if at home your DS has discovered playing with cars/small world toys then tell the nursery that it's a new thing for him that you'd like them to encourage. It may only take a staff member saying 'hey, DS, mummy said you really liked playing with cars, can you show me what you do?' to move a child away from an activity that they've always, always, always gone to first.

When mine were at nursery in the UK they had a "structured" day (songs, story time, etc), but free play played a very important part.
Dd is now at a nursery school here in Italy (she is 5.5) and free play still is an important part of their day.

should be a lot of free play in reception too!

I work in a preschool, and yes, the session is mainly free play. About 15 minutes in, we getthe children to stop where they are, and introduce the activities that are out for the day - but children can also ask for other resources out, whatever they want.

we have free flow to outside for as much of the session as possible (shared playground with school), but we do have 2 short directed sessions - group time for 2 small groups pitched to the individuals interests and abilities, and story/singing at the end of the session.

snack is on a rolling basis and they can choose when to come, when the snack table is open.

we do have some children who always want to stick doing one thing, but we would try to encourage them to do something different - for example if interest is painting, paint a map to use in the role play pirate area, or we would take the paint outside and maybe encourage painting big junk models.

I don't agree with forcing a child to do something they don't want to do, but we work with their interests to encourage branching out. eg fixation with dinosaurs, put dinos in water tray, make junk madelling dinosaurs, source dinosaur stories...

I love the freeplay (with storytime etc) aspect of my dds playgroup. Its what I wanted, a playgroup like the one I went to and just had fun. They can have structure when they start school and even then its mainly play for the first year or so

Sil moved to this area 1.5 years ago, just before ds1 started reception. as did my ds1 start reception at same time. nursery is attached tot he school. i went there with my children in the summer holidays last year. the boys were off on a kids club in the school. and ds2 and i went with sil and her dd tot he pre-school/ nursery bit.
so dd has been there for about a year. since she was 3. was the only place she has been.
And it is LOVELY. totally lovely. the activities were fab. the loving ethos was particularly beautiful. sil and i talked about it because she said that school ethos was the same. and i said that my ds1's school was the same. and we commented that we were so thrilled with this.

But last weekend, sil said that she thought this lack of direction, which had not been the same when ds1 had gone to nursery/pre-school, in their old home town. she said she didn't think it was right. and i agreed.

and just for the record:
I AM NOT AGAINST FREE PLAY.
I don't know if I ma not expressing myself here very well, but I don't seem to be able to get my point across.

My dds preschool is great the seem to balance the freee play with organised activities. There are play sessions when they are allowed to pick almost anything (majority of toys allowed, large toys like train set tables/rocking horses rotated those not allowed not in sight) with more structured things, they have carpet time at the start when they do registration prior to register they are allowed to freely choose a book but no toys out until after the register.

The also spend 5-10 mins ish after registter talking about letters/colour/shape of week, the weather that

The also somehow fit in one to one time, dd spends this writing her letters though this may be at her iniation as she loves this

Oblomov I may be reading it wrong but the issue you seem to have is with the nursery's approach to free play and their inaction re: moving your DNiece onto other activities?

If so I totally agree with you.