Committees and pre-schools, running out of helpfull parents!

[Ripeberry]

Hi, been on this thread in the past about pre-school committees and this year is no different.
We had our AGM last night and we have 16 famillies on the books and ONLY one new parent showed up.
The other two parents me and another committee member were present, together with our employed playleaders X2, employed treasurer, the exiting chairman and a overseer from playlink.
So, as usuall, the only two people left on the committee have to stay.
That one new parent was a total star and took up Treasurer/Vouchers clerk role and i'm doing fundraising, chasing voucher forms and liaising with Ofsted and doing the EYFS "suitable person" interview.
BUT, the biggest hot potato is the CHAIR, they tried to get me to do it but NO WAY as my youngest will be finishing pre-school next year and i want to make a quick exit from the committee as i've been doing this for 4yrs running, even when i had no kids at pre-school.
We will have another meeting in October and basically if NO-ONE takes the chair then the pre-school HAS TO CLOSE.
The parents need to come forward and we will write to them about it, but i've done my bit and won't be held responsible for the end of the pre-school.
It's the wider community that is letting it down, not the parents that actually get off their arses and do something to help.
This kind of problem happens in most pre-schools and in the future all this "can't be bothered" attitude is going to mean that pre-schools will all have to become nurseries and parents will end up paying much more.

I'll let you all know how it goes on the 8th October (our last meeting?) People still coming up to me with their excuses for not attending or saying they will attend but WONT be the chair.
I've got a feeling they are just going to sit there and aggree to do all the other committee jobs and then try and get me and the only other committee member from last year to be the chair.
And then if we refuse we will be branded the pre-school killers!
Well, sorry NO, they have to take responsibility as it's their pre-school now.
And it does not help that the outgoing chairman is refusing to come to the meetings as he says he's resigned.
Yes pre-school committees ARE a PITA!

Sorry if this is a dim question but what is the alternative to a committee run pre-school?

Our committee does seems well supported at the moment but this has not always been the case and we have the same worries that everyone else has highlighted. We operate in the local school hall and have wondered about approaching their Headteacher to see if they could/would take the pre-school on.

It doesn't seem fair that the excellent pre-school staff we have are 'run' by us lot who have no experience to draw on other than we are parents!!

orvalit, i beleive the alternateive is to run as a profit makng business and be subject to all the rules of a business including paying tax. The issue with doi that is probably one of cost, as in ifit's a charity it's not run for profit so it doesn't matter if you break even. If it's a proper business then you would proably have to charg mroe for it so that you make money. A lot of our money to buy new equipment comes from fundraising whereas a business would more likely need to buy that from money in the bank IYSWIM?!

Ripberry, good luck today let us now what happens

OK, have posted this before about my experience on a pre-school committee (regular in disguise by the way, this whole experience was so traumatic, I don't even want it linked to my usual ID)

I put my hand up at a meeting and 'did the right thing', joined the committee, subsequently made chair when the current chair resigned mid year and ended up at an Employment Tribunal due to the way employment issues had been handled over the years. The current committee is held responsible as the employer.

I could never recommend anyone else to volunteer, it was nothing short of a nightmare for me, I was completely exposed.

The PLA were supportive but it was two years of my life spent worried to death and a HUGE wake up call for the PLA in our area, who have had to change their ideas and responses to issues.

BTW Eddas, the pre-school is now run as a break even business by two members of staff - it basically runs with very slight increases from the charity days, to cover corporation tax etc.

It does seem amazing that volunteers are responsible for other people's salaries

hh, i've read your story before and it does make you stop and think.

Charity run pre-schools do seem such a PITA, it would be much easier to get it all set up so that there are no volunteers. You are doing something for nothing, which people don't mind, but if you get legal problems,like you did HH, that is just not on.

Another hour to go. Now we have a possible resignation thrown into the mix so just might all explode!

Oh thinking of you tonight Ripeberry.

I was discussing this with our chair last night and we were saying that we save the LA a huge amount of money by running these Nurseries. If we didn't do it then places would still have to be provided.
If we didn't run it then the fees would increase massively at our Nursery.
People think they are entitled though because places for 3 year olds are now funded and so they just drop off and treat it as childcare. Bring back the playgroup I say ...(only half joking actually).
Our Nursery is there to serve the community. I wonder if there will be any sort of community in years time. People don't seem to have the time for it any more .

Thanks Eddas - running a business is definitely NOT the way we want to go so looks like we need to keep on with a committee. It just doesn't seem right and in many ways such an antiquated system.

Does anybody know if there is an actual definition of nursery/pre-school/ playgroup. I am guessing a playgroup is where the parent stays and is therefore responsible for their child. But otherwise what is the difference other than the name?

Ripeberry you must be in the thick of it now....good luck

Hi everyone, tried to post last night but my computer was on the blink.
We still DO NOT have a Chair. The secretary has resigned. One parent turned up but did not want to be secretary or Chair.
We were just glad SOMEONE turned up!
We now have only effectively have two actual committee members me and the treasurer, the (almost out of the door Chair) has only got his toe left in the door.
So i've jumped from the frying pan into the fire or is it the other way round.
I've said that i would be.............the secretary.
But the committee still needs a Chair.
So overnight i've now got to contact Playlink to see if they can help and then we have to have a meeting with the after school club to see if we can have a JOINT committee becasue that is the only way it can work.
If the pre-school close we take all the equipment and toys as they belong to the pre-school and the after school club would be left with an empty shell.
If they don't agree then both schemes will be wound up together.
So wish me luck and tell me i've been stupid!
I'm far too soft for my own good.
Oh yeah and i'm going to lamp someone today if they ask me how the meeting went!
Thanks for all your wishes and support

does one do hugs on MN? (((Ripeberry)))

does the afterschool club actually have a committee then?! or is it just that they've got another group of parents who could be volunteered?

sound like a plan anyway

good luck!

The after school part do have a committee and they are having their AGM soon. So i've been running around like a headless chicken today and sending off loads of e-mails, trying to get everyone together for the AGM.
Even managed to get Playlink to agree to attend.
But the after school club's Chairperson is thinking of leaving as well so we are back to square one!
I just say, close it all. If parents don't want to help then let them pay for expensive nurseries if that's what they want.
I'm just feeling very "dumped upon" as i am effectively the last old committee member left and i just can't cope with it all!

Ripeberry. Good Luck. Secretary is not so bad .

I'm getting seriously peeved now. I feel like everything has been dumped on me. The Chairman says he's resigned but he is still named. Our secretary has to resign due to personal problems, we only have one parent out of 17 famillies who gives a damn about helping out but she can't commit to doing much (only a general member) and then we have our lovely Treasurer who has been dumped on as well.
So the only officers we have are me (secretary and Treasurer), our old Chair is being really unhepfull and unsupportive.
What i'm also worried about now, is that i'm trying to set up as a home based childminder and i've spent a lot of time and money getting the house right and getting the training.
If the pre-school has to close then won't i be in a conflict of interest?
Because of course if it closes i'll get some customers.
But at the same time they will blame me for letting it fail. But how can that be? (see start of thread).
How do i stand? This is putting me off helping out EVER AGAIN.

Anyone?

Oh ripeberry, sorry I didn't see this before.

I had a similar situation last month, I was standing down as Chair after 3 miserable years and have been looking for a replacement for a year. It's a big pre-school, approx. 50 children registered, so we had a reasonable turnout at AGM but still no Chair. So I said if nobody stepped forward I would be closing the pre-school with immediate effect. Stunned silence, followed by an offer of co-Chairing and then someone said they'd co-Chair too, so it's settled.

Have you told all 16 parents that pre-school will close unless there is a proper Committee with all 3 Executive roles filled?

Do you follow the Pre-School Learning Alliance's Model Constitution? If so, you MUST have 5 members (parents) present at the AGM to reach quorum. You must also have at least 5 Committee members (incl Chair, Sec & Treas) but only 60% of them need be parents. So you could ask local great & good, vicar, vicars wife, retired teachers, grandparent, someone from the village hall committee etc, etc? I know it's more work to find them but it does widen your options.

In the meantime, I'd speak to the Pre-School Learning Alliance and more importantly, the Charities Commission, to ask advice on your current situation.

Do not feel obliged to do everything yourself. If you tell the 16 parents what the situation is then you really can't be held responsible for it closing, and subsequently your new business gaining some new clients. And good luck with your business!

And incidentally, the Constitution states that a Committee member (incl. the Chair) can only resign if 5 other elected members of the Committee remain in office...

You also need an Extraordinary General Meeting to close the pre-school down and it requires a two thirds majority vote of all members present. Then the Committee & Pre-School Learning Alliance will wind it up and transfer any remaining assets either to the PLA or to another pre-school with charitable status.

Thanks for your replies. Just been checking my e-mails and the wife of our chair has sent me a letter to basically say "leave my husband alone" He is the Chair at the moment but he has washed his hands of it all.
He has not even written a resignation letter.
I think we need that off him if he wants to be left alone!
The after school club is NOT a charity so i suppose the contents CAN'T be tranz to them.
It will have to go to the PLA.
I'm going to write a letter to all the parents to say that the future of their pre-school is at stake now and that they MUST turn up.
But then i worry they will just stop their kids coming and go somewhere else anyway, even if by some miracle someone steps up and volunteers.
Don't know what i'd do without MN, Thank you

Hi - don't know if anybody can help or not, but it seemed better to continue on this thread as people seem to be having similar problems to us.

I am currently secretary of our pre-school. The play-leader has recently passed her EYP, I understand a sum of £5000 is paid by the government as a transition payment for when all pre-schools have to have a member of staff with this qualification. The play-leader is demanding all of this sum for herself as a pay-rise, but we are not happy about this as it would be a 60% pay increase. She is threatening to take us to an employment tribunal if it does not happen, is ignoring committee members etc.

I only know the scant details as most discussions have been with the treasurer and chairman. It is now getting nasty and we have a meeting planned for tomorrow night. Is anybody in this sort of situation or can offer any advice?

helennn - I don't know about this £5000 transition payment, I think you need to speak to the PLA (020 7833 0991) or your local Councils Education Dept and establish what this money is for before you go to the meeting tomorrow night. Even if the staff member can have the whole £5k transition fee (assuming it's not for the pre-school), I imagine it would be difficult for the pre-school to keep her salary at that level every year.

ripeberry - I'd be furious with someone, who having agreed to be Chair, just walked away with complete disregard for the pre-school and his responsibilities as a Trustee. Again, speak to the CC or PLA and ask if they can write to him or telephone, to tell him what he ought to do. Grrrr! on your behalf!

Hi!

Are you getting anywhere yet, ripeberry?

Another one here with similar problems.
had our AGM last week and only one parent turned up. Two of our committee members have to resign - one has moved to Scotland and the other is taking a year out in Australia. (Lucky so-and-so!)

So we'll be left with just a treasurer (me) and a secretary. I wouldn't mind taking over as Chair.... but then we'd have no treasurer.

Anyway, we're calling another AGM next week with the very real threat of closure. I'm getting to the point where I don't really care if we do close down - I would feel sorry for the staff who've done nothing wrong, but seeing as most of the parents don't seem to give a stuff...

Scarlet, sorry you're having problems as well.
It's so weird that all these pre-schools are all getting into trouble at the same time.
But this can't be all blamed on the credit crunch.
Good luck for your EGM. Lock the parents in when they collect their kids, that should get someone to help! I'm starting to become not so nice at the moment .

Oh Ripeberry, sorry this is still going on. and sympathies with you others too .

FWIW Our chair tried to resign a year and half ago. No-one stepped up and so she said she had to stay on. She was not best pleased. I am trying to get some 'Role' sheets approved so that someone might take it on over the next 12 months....

Just a quick note but if you are signed up to the PLA constitution I recommend you give it a good read. There are rules about how much notice you need to give to the parents for AGM's and EGM's. If you do not give sufficient notice the outcome may not be effective. See here, (only if you are signed up to their consitution of course), www.pre-school.org.uk/. Constituion is on right hand side of page. Fairly sure you need a minimum of 5 people on the committee, chair, secretary, treasurer and at least 2 others.