Unfriendly mums at school

[Lottemarine]

Hi,
My son who is nearly 4 started kindy/nursery at the beginning of the year at a small private community school. We are now in term 3, so still early days, but I find the school run pretty horrendous, due to the cliques going on and unfriendly mums.

If I see a parent of one of the other kids I always smile and say hi, but almost half the mums are so unfriendly and never make eye contact. That is to say a lot seem to know each other from the school playgroup, which we didn’t do or have older children at the school and seem adverse to letting newcomers in.

Just to say, I’m not looking for mum friends, I have those of my own just politeness I guess because our kids are in a small class and will be together for another 12 years (it’s a combined primary and secondary school). I find I’ve barely managed to get to the point of our names, let alone small talk.

I guess I’m not asking for much, just a hi would be fine.

My son is now asking for play dates and I’m not sure how to approach this because it’s with some of the sons of these women.

I’m more concerned about my son being included and don’t want to him to be impacted because I’m not chummy with these mums. Any advice.

I worked so never did the school run and never met other parents. So I collected mum mobile numbers via birthday invitations and then used that to whatsapp to invite kids for playdates.

I never speak to anyone on the nursery run. School run maybe but not nursery. I'm in and out and off to work asap.

In COVID we were also conditioned not to hang around the reception and not to go near other parents and that has also stuck a bit.

I wouldn't worry about it. You are probably inferring standoffishness from just dazed morning feeling. If your son wants playdates then ask the parents, they may well feel very pleased!

I see lots of threads about this. And find it fascinating so many women are so obsessed with the other mums, who are just cracking on with their stuff and not paying that individual any attention, it’s not a slight.

and they are not cliques,they are just friends, it’s allowed. Just get on with your stuff and stop obsessing on them, they aren’t unfriendly and cliquey, they just don’t know you and are living their lives.

Have you tried walking up to people and introducing yourself properly, perhaps asking them a question? I remember feeling rushed and distracted on the school run, I’d tend to just seek out the mums I knew & enjoyed talking to and chat to them. I remember when one of my dc started at a new school part way through lower prep (end of Year 1) all the others already knew each other, so I just walked up to people or small groups of 2-3 and introduced myself. It’s a little bit awkward but you just have to bite the bullet.

Are you a lot older or younger than the other mums? Are you local? Is there any other factor that makes you feel you don’t fit in?

I and friends were guilty of that. We all met when our eldest kids started school together and it just so happened that most of us had a younger child then go afterwards in the same year. It’s balls having to summon the energy to do friendships and if you have all hit a groove then it’s a case of just continuing that when your next wave of kids goes through. We were never nasty to anyone but just stuck to ourselves with subsequent kids going through as took less time and energy.

Edited to add, I guess the point is it was never anything personal with other parents of kids in subsequent years to our eldest kids.

I know what you saying and yes I don’t doubt they are friends, which is great.

It’s really about my son being included in things eg birthday parties etc and him not being impacted because I’m not in with the mums.

Thanks for your perspective, it’s good to hear and makes sense.

It really doesn't matter if they say hi to you. Your kid will be invited to parties of the kids he's friends with. He's the one in school, not you.

You don’t need to be “in” with the mums, it’s not about you, it’s about him. He will make his own friends, it’s up to you to teach him the social skills required. You invite his friends for play dates, and facilitate him going on ones he’s invited to.

That’s true, but many mothers of younger children will tend to arrange play dates with the dc of school mums they like, especially at private/prep schools. I found that mothers were often invited to stay for coffee/lunch during play dates.

They really don’t. It’s a myth peddled on here by the chronically insecure and socially maladroit to give weight to their wailings about ‘cliques’ and ‘queen bees’ not talking to them. DS has been to three primaries in two countries, and only at the his most recent have I had any contact whatsoever with other parents. He was still invited on play dates, and I hosted them via getting parents’ numbers from the class WhatsApp.

It’s certainly socially maladroit to resort to unnecessary insults and to dismiss someone else’s observations out of some weird determination to extrapolate your own experiences to the population at large!

Many parents of younger children do prefer to invite the children of the mothers they know/like for play dates - especially at private schools. Fact.

So because you’re dc has been to three schools in two countries that means you know everything right…Actually that is not always the case, in fact you haven’t listened to my post at all. You’ve come with your preconceived ideas to attack my own. I am not attacking anyone, I am merely stating what I have experienced.

Clearly you think things are very one dimensional and simplistic.

If it were merely a case of contacting parents on WhatsApp for playdates and them saying yes why do you think I would bother with this post.

I don’t see how trying to engage with parents for the benefit of your own children is socially maladroit, especially as we are going to spend the next 12 years together at a COMMUNITY school. If anything it is the opposite!

Very well said.

I think it all depends as in primary school I didn’t try too hard, by the end of it made a couple of good friends and kids who may have not necessarily been natural friends but as parents friends got thrown together and love each other so much but I realised I should have tried harder. Child started secondary and I tried harder and oh my god the social life for us as a couple and also for our son is amazing got an amazing group for days out, adult dinners out etc complete support network too. I get the anxiety as when it goes well it is beyond amazing.

Three terms in, and you don’t know the parents’ names yet, you need to bite the bullet and just invite for a play date. Don’t wait for an invitation. You say you are not looking for friends, and maybe you give off that vibe. If they are looking for friends/company/a social circle, they are naturally going to be inviting the more open to friendship mums/kids. I know it should be about the kids, but aged 3/4, it really comes down to who the mum wants to spend an afternoon with.

@Lottemarine I don't really have any advice, but I just want to validate what you are experiencing.
There were certainly "cliques" at my childrens' primary school gate. The main one consisted of women who had always lived in the area, and they sucked up to women who were, (or, more often whose husbands/partners were), in prestigious/well-paid jobs - think doctors for example. I didn't fall into either category, and these 2 demographics melded into one large clique. And this clique consisted entirely of women.
I really made an effort to be friendly and fit in. I didn't have much confidence or self esteem at the time, (maybe this was apparent), and the overt rejection was hurtful and totally demoralising.
I wish I hadn't let it affect me so much, but I did. And this situation was very real, before anyone tries to tell me otherwise. I did wonder if it was just me feeling that way, but in the years that followed, I would encounter other women who had felt exactly the same, which made me feel less "other".
And for people who say you don't need to make "mum friends" at school........if you're new to an area and know virtually no-one when your child starts school/playgroup/pre-school, you might feel the need to do just that.
@Lottemarine.........whether you make friends with other mums or not, I hope your son will make friends and feel more included before too long.

Has ds not been invited to any parties yet? At his age parents normally stay and it's a good way to get to know other parents.

@Cesarina
I know what you mean - so glad my youngest is going into y12!
The other day I was walking in my small town and saw the dm of a girl in dd3's year. They are not best friends but they have music lessons together and have known each other since reception. I said hello and she ignored me. Perhaps she didn't see me - we were the only people on the pavement - and she was preoccupied but it still felt a bit off! Our dds go to a private school some distance from our home town.

Don’t worry about parents. Encourage your child to be sociable and always welcome other children into your home. It is surprising how many children want and are allowed to come. Some reciprocate, some don’t but tbh I always preferred having them at my house and letting the other parents pick them up later, saved me going back out for mine.

Write your number down on a piece of paper, approach them and just say hello, I'm so and so's mum, I don't think we've properly met yet, my name is.. And my kid has mentioned ur kid a lot and seems to really like them, I don't know many of the mums here but I'd really like to organise a play date at my home/local park/soft play centre, so if you know any other parents who would like to come you can pass my number on... They might take you up on it, they might not. But you've done what you can do :)

You could be describing the school my little one goes to! It’s really hard to make your place and it’s horrible that people are not welcoming. If it’s an option, volunteering for parent roles within the school (eg fairs, fetes etc) and attending events is a good way to become familiar to people. Once you know a couple of people things get easier. Also, if it’s run like ours and there are multiple kindy groups that then go into one class when they start ‘Big School’ this opens up social groups a lot. Best of luck x

This just isn't true, I'm sorry. It isn't your experience, that doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

Yeah, you've just got to get stuck in, even though it's a bit awkward. Just get your kid to point out who he wants a playdate with and approach them. Few parents will turn down you offering to take their kid for a few hours.

Once you start with this, the party invitations will come. And if you can get yourself a reputation as a reliable turner-upper, all the better. My DC1 was never the most popular kid but over the years got invited to almost everything, which I attribute at least in part to prioritising parties, RSVPing promptly and remembering to come on the day - you'd be surprised at how few people manage all three consistently.

There is no need to justify unfriendly behaviour. There are people out there ( mum or dads) who will for instance for fact know you, as they've seen you on birthday parties for example and still not even say good morning or hi. It is just PLAIN COURTESY and manners, which seems like some people have forgotten or don't know how to do it. You don't have to show lack of manners just because you continue with your life after a school run, everyone does.
And there are cliques and queen bees, many psychologists talk about this behaviour that is present in adults even after they have finished school. It might be that you are not very observant and to dismiss someone else's valid observations just shows that you have either less observation skills or don't really understand human behaviour. As for insecure women, it's usually the gossip mum or the queen bee .... And yes it does affect kids as well as they can be excluded from the parties.