2.11 and no interest in writing, counting - needing reassurance!

[Portlypenguin]

DS is 2.11 and has a very vivid imagination. He loves pretend play and playing outside. He is very very active. Nursery say he is very imaginative and interested but he shows no inclination towards drawing/ writing or counting. He can count confidently to 12 and with some mistakes to20. But if i say 'how many x are there' he turns away and won't even try. Similarly with drawing he just runs off. He has refused to try using scissors.

In his nursery room are pictures other kids have done and 'joining up the dots' writing by some of them. Makes me feel a bit hopeless!

He loves books but again is totally refusing to co-operate with starting phonics/reading. I'm less concerned about that as he is little still.

Any words of wisdom? Am i just worrying about nothing?

Worrying about nothing! Not quite 3 is very young. My DS is 4.5, will start school in September and still has no interest in reading or writing. However, give him some Lego and he builds the most amazing intricate models and I have had to hide the screwdrivers as he keeps trying to take things apart. Like my toaster. We use the grill now...

Boys typically do develop later than girls with writing according to DS's preschool.

Just encourage the things he does enjoy and I'm sure the rest will come.

Ds is 3 and has no interest in drawing or writing. He will snip things and count if he's in the mood but generally he'd rather run about, build lego, play cars or climb on things. Preschool aren't in the least bit worried. Nor am I.

He's tiny! Relax and enjoy the playing!

Ds1 stayed at home till he started nursery at 3yrs 4months and had no interest in writing but was happy to count when chatting at home. He had no interest in writing, let alone reading till he started school and was reading pretty well after a term.

No need to worry.

To encourage mark making have you tried painting with water outside, chalking on the pavement, making marks in sand, bath crayons - he is still very little, please don't stress about it.

Absolutely do not worry. That's far too young for it to be a problem. If you like you could try to encourage mark making on a large scale such as using big decorating paint brushes and water on the garden path or walls, chunky brushes and paints on large bits of paper or finger painting. That's all I would be encouraging at this age. And in terms of reading I would focus on fostering a love of books and stories and maybe introduce the odd bit of I Spy using colours rather than letter sounds in preparation for when he is interested in sounds and happy to play it the traditional way.

Am i just worrying about nothing?

Yeah, you are - he sounds absolutely normal. Don't try and push him into activities that he has no interest in - it could be counter productive. Foster his love of books and let him follow his interests. At that age he should be playing with mud and singing nursery rhymes.

FWIW my DS had no interest whatsoever in drawing, mark-making and phonics when he started in reception last September. He couldn't even write his name having strongly resisted any attempts to teach him.

He is now a strong and enthusiastic reader and writes obsessively (usually letters to friends, shopping lists of toys or instructions for DH & me ).

thanks everyone! I will try and relax. I probably wouldnt be worried at all if i wasn't comparing....

It's hard not to compare when there are displays of work by other kids. As soon as ds started school I couldn't compare any more - the teachers wouldn't give any of us the slightest hint of how our kids were doing compared to the rest of the class so the parents would huddle outside the classroom comparing reading book levels to try and figure it out. I now inspect certain facebook posts to see how my friend's kid's writing compares to ds's!

Unless your DS is in a nursery for under-3s only, then you are probably comparing him to older children as presumably they have contributed to the pictures and dot-joining exercises on display.

Yes. You are worrying about nothing. Forcing him to do activities he dislikes at this stage is likely to backfire. Just let him play. He will be fine.

Please don't worry about your child. Most 2 year olds aren't particularly interested in writing or numbers. Many 3 year olds aren't. Especially if they are being expected to sit at a table to do it "properly". It should be a natural & fun aspect of their play. As in- mark making like paintbrushes & water, chalk outside on the pavement. No expectations of correctness, just experimenting & exploration. Clipboards & notebooks in the role play area- so he can write notes like a builder or policeman etc...

I would be asking questions about how your nursery supports his interests, and links the curriculum TO HIS interests. That is how it is supposed to work. They get to know him, then plan fun activities that extend his learning (as in the stuff above I mentioned) It should not be about him fitting into the curriculum. Definitely the other way around.

It worries me a little that they have worksheets out with kids joining dotted letters. This is very outdated & discouraged practice. Are the people qualified in early years? Any of them recently (last 10 years) trained early years teachers?

In terms of you continuing to support your child, look for short, teachable moments. That occur naturally during your every day interactions & activities. Waiting for a bus? Which number is it? In the supermarket? We need 4 red apples and 5 yellow bananas. Oh the bananas are heavy- much heavier than the apples... etc... Read to him, sing to him, read rhyming books & make up rhymes. Make instruments & make up songs. Play with language. A child that has a large vocabulary & awareness of sound discrimination picks up phonics much easier.

Above all else, play. Take him outside. Let him play and have fun. A child that is involved in a wide range of rich experiences & interactions, and grows up in a loving, supportive home, tends to thrive at school.

My DD (8) was just like this and DS (3.8) is the same. DD's opinion of school when she started was, "It's OK, but I won't go back. Too much sitting still and learning". She was quite disgruntled when we insisted! At nursery DS refuses all Number Town and Letterland activities in favour of building things and imaginative play. Neither nursery or I are concerned- he's happy, sociable and enjoys himself and will get there when he's ready.

I've got DD to reassure me- after a slow start she's now on the top table in class, doing well and loves school and reading.

Let him have fun!

Thanks everyone. I think it doesn't help we live in a very middle class area with lots of pushy parents/ super bright academics kids etc. Some of the 2yr olds are carrying oxford reading tree books around!

DS is in a room at nursery with all 2yr olds (many approaching 3) but I suspect many are being taught a lot of stuff at home formally. Last night I received a birthday invite for a 3rd b'day party written by the LO - handwriting almost illegible in places but certainly writing rather than a giant scribble or mix up of paint.

The nursery DS goes to is pretty good (oftsed outstanding for what that is worth) - all staff qualified to some level with lots of early years trained people. I don't think they are forcing him to do anything specific - just that as most of the other kids are doing it they are noticing DS doesn't! We chose this nursery as it is on work based placed one for the hospital I work at.

I think I'll just continue with our strategy of just encouraging and I suspect DS will be fine.

Thanks for all your comments though - much appreciated.

I am very middle class and highly educated and neither of my DS's had any interest in mark-making until they were over 4. A year or so later, they're both very into drawing/colouring/writing etc. And they're both advanced readers for their ages. So don't worry, your DS is perfectly normal! Sounds just like mine at that age.

DD on the other hand was drawing/painting etc. from about 18 months. Which was very annoying because she didn't discriminate between paper/wall/carpet. Grrr.

Oh, and my 6yo quite often writes invitations/thank you letters etc. 'for' my 2yo. He's very keen to do it, so I let him. It hadn't occurred to me that people might think that she is exceptionally advanced and writing fluently already. Ha ha! Does your invitation-giver have any older siblings?

Some of the 2yr olds are carrying oxford reading tree books around!
This is in case they need something to chew on.

I received a birthday invite for a 3rd b'day party written by the LO Their mum or dad would have held their hand. Or as Driven said, likely an older sibling.

I also live in pushy parent central. I know their ways.

Bless you OP and in the nicest possible way, calm down! The lad isn't even THREE yet!

Can all those who are "joining the dots" climb and run as well as your DS? Are they as good at imaginative self-led play as he is? I guess not.

They all major in something, trying to force it if there is no interest will just create a scene about it and put them off for life.

You'll be surprised how quickly they pick things up when they are ready for it and in the right frame of mind. Your son could well have no interest now and in 6 mths be writing his name and counting to 100.

a friend's DS started Receotion in September last year, having done absolutely no reading, writing, phonics, whatever - he has already finished the Reception year syllabus and is on to Year One.

I wouldn't worry about it. DD is 4 and a half and not that bothered. She can run faster and is more agile and physically fearless that a lot of her peers, which is nice, but equally as important/unimportant/nothing to be bothered about.

Further thoughts from me; with my eldest at school now the whole "how does my DD compare?" thing has been much in my mind.

When you have kids, you have to make a decision about how you are going to approach the whole competitiveness thing. Otherwise you will drive yourself insane with anxiety if Jonny can swim better than your DS or Harry is on blue band already when your DS is only on red band. It all gets much worse when they get to school. If we are not careful we project all of our own competitiveness on to the poor old kids.

Much better to think that your DS is an unique person all of his own, who will have particular talents, interests and focusses or I suppose should I say foci. It's our job to respond to them as individuals and nourish their talents and interests and not try to mould them into mini-me's. When they are babies we all imagine they are going to do all the things we did/would like to have done. But as they grow up we realise their difference from us and the fact that we cannot use them as a tool to perpetuate our own existence in the world and be the people we are/would have liked to be.

We also need to think about what our definition of "success" is and what we REALLY want for our children.

Everyone will think differently about this, but there is much more to being "successful" in life than getting into a selective school/going to Oxbridge/having a high status job. I've been a part of that world, it has many things going for it but many of the people in that world, while high achievers in a sense, are nonetheless in the remedial class when it comes to things that really matter - the ability to sustain relationships, the self-knowledge to know what is REALLY important to you, and achieve personal growth as we journey through life (after all, this is what makes for a fulfilled life). I know too many high earners with high status jobs who at 50 are still in the same mindset that they were when they were at Oxford - i.e. what matters is material success and public recognition. No development of insight or wisdom at all, in 30 odd years. And often struggling as a shameful secret with anxiety and depression. It's sad. They only have one life and they haven't really moved on in all that time.

My view is that children who are not pushed too early but who are sensitively supported to follow their own interests will be much more psychologically robust, attain greater wisdom about what matters to them in life, and ultimately be more fulfilled.

So sod the joining the dots writing, let your DS get on with climbing rocks or whatever else it is floats his boat

PPS Promise this is my final post ...

Don't forget that children of your DS' age need to play in a self directed way. They don't need to be taken to 5 extra curricular activities per week (all structured and adult-led) or to sit down every night and chant the alphabet or start blending and reciting the phonemes and graphemes.

You might find this an interesting read en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donald_Winnicott#Playing_and_reality

Thanks everyone. So helpful. DS certainly has good imagination and enjoyed a cake making session this afternoon in which we counted chocolate chips etc!

Bumpsadaisie - for what it is worth my husband and I were both at oxbridge/medical school and we are well aware of those types. Agree that the wider view of life is generally more helpful! We have found we have drifted away from some of our more stereotyped oxbridge friends and into our current group.