Bad/Naughty behaviour in Playgroup

[LittleBugsMum]

My DS (2.6) has had a few behavioural issues at playgroup and I have been asked for my consent to have someone 'observe' him while he's there to help the staff (and him) best deal with his disruptive behaviour.

The main issue is throwing things but there have been other problems. I don't think he's that bad, perhaps a little highly strung and quick to temper and I thought all children threw things etc, but I guess they have more of a frame of reference.

Has anyone else had any experience with this? I was a bit embarrassed? upset? to ask anything about who it will be, what they'll do, will there be file? I did consent at the time although she could tell I was unsure.

I have run a pre-school for 4 years and we have had a number of parents refusing to allow staff to do this when there have been behaviour issues. This has led to the child becoming more disruptive, the parents getting angry when they are continually told about the behaviour and eventually they either agree reluctantly or move pre-schools to then have to agree to that pre-school to do it anyway as nothing changed - you are doing the right thing to agree.

Don't be embarrassed or upset as they are trying to help, ask all the questions you want as you need to feel reassured about it. You have to think about it realistically though - not all children throw things and also even if they did, do you really want your DS to do this? From experience even at 2 years few children throw things on a regular basis and no child would be 'allowed' to throw things in our setting without being spoken to about it.

The staff will observe him and put a behaviour plan in place, ask to see the behaiour plan and see if there are things you can replicate at home etc. There will be a written plan and observations but its really nothing to worry about. Try to see it as a positive thing.

Ah, that's interesting. So this happens a lot then? That's reassuring in itself. Who is it they send? A child psychologist? And do they interact with the child or just watch for the triggers then give feedback?

I was hoping I could deal with this myself but we have since had a 'zero tolerance' attitude to it, punishing him immediately for throwing, and I didn't realise that it happens so much, it really is A LOT! He doesn't always seem to know how to stop himself & is often apologising before the object has hit it's target, like it's a compulsion, so I guess he might benefit from from some professional input.

I would be very positive about this if it wasn't my child. It's the whole 'it must be my fault' thing...plus I was worried about singling him out as a 'naughty' child so early in case it becomes a label he finds hard to shake...

Thanks for your reply, it was exactly the advice I was hoping for :)

I would expect staff to be looking at their observations to see if they supported the notion that the child was using a trajectory schema as a way of learning. If the child was very keen on throwing I would hope that the setting would not go down the road of We Do Not Allow it, I would expect them to find ways to allow the child to explore throwing safely, say with beanbags outside, perhaps with a target to extend, or to involve them in scrunching paper to throw into a basket indoors. Blanket bans on throwing seem quite limiting to me

WRT the other unspecified issues LittleBugs, the staff brought in to observe will be able to identify any trigger points and help to develop a plan to help your child

Good luck

I can't see why they would get an outside person in at this stage as the staff should be experienced and qualified enough to deal with it themselves, its not a major behavioural problem and unlikely to be a 'deeper' issue. I would be concerned if they could not deal with this in this early stage but if they have exhausted all options then it is likely to be a health visitor or someone similar who would deal with this sort of behaviour - I would be very surprised if its a psychologist.

Boyarelikedogs - I understand what you are saying regarding a blanket ban however I took the 'throwing things' to mean throwing totally unsuitable things to throw in an inappropriate situation - I apologise if I misread the original meaning of the post. I could not see any situation where throwing random things could be condoned and no setting would not let children throw things such as bean bags and balls - this should be a normal part of their every day play.

Boysarelikedogs Thanks for the link! That was very cool. He displays a lot of that behaviour (but also quite a bit of the others). WRT the blanket ban, we have implemented that at home (even balls & soft items that wouldn't have been a problem before) just so that he is at least aware of when he's doing it, to make him think about his actions more. It seems to be working too, bless him.

Lou, there is an outside person coming in but they were already coming for another child so I think they've included DS because he's at the forefront of their minds at the moment. It's a little disheartening if it's a health visitor though, I really don't consider them an authority on behaviour after advice I've been given by them in the past. I guess it isn't a big enough problem to warrant a psychologist though, and of course that's a good thing :)

We'll see. I know his behaviour can be dangerous for the other children so as long as he isn't singled out and I agree with any action they take then I'll go along with it.

I resent that this is making me think negatively about him. He really is a lovely, very imaginative and interested child.

I know the HV thing is not ideal although maybe thats unfair as some are very good, we have had a mixture of experiences. I believe the system is changing and there will be more specific HVs to deal with these sorts of things.

Don't feel negatively about him, just because its something you need to stop him doing doesn't mean its not normal and probably a phase! Most parents go through this one way or another (my DS2 had horrific tantrums between 2 & 3 yrs) and its really upsetting but it makes it difficult if its a behavioural issue that could potentially hurt others as it makes it so much more obvious. My friends DS used to bite other children but he's 7 now and of course does not bite now!

I hope it all works out for you, I'd love to hear what happens - I'm sure it will be fine!!!

It's not likely to be a HV, I'm sure different areas vary but when we have to do this (and I would say out of our 50ish children we have done this with 3 of them so it isn't rare so please don't be worried) it is someone from the LEA who specialises in behaviour and development. She sometimes gives the staff an action plan, she sometimes recommends referring on to the child development centre but parents are involved all the way.

The whole idea of this kind of early intervention is to prevent a child going to school and being labelled as naughty, either there is a problem which needs continued support or it's something that can be nipped in the bud.

If it is impulsive could you try to wean him onto some alternative, acceptable way of showing his frustration? Do they have an outside area where balls are permitted to be thrown, for example? I just feel that it's problematic to go with a solution of always punishing him when he's shown that he knows it's wrong, with the immediate apology etc. It's not teaching him to handle his frustration, in fact it's likely to make him feel more frustrated that he's being punished for something which feels like it is out of his control.

While you do the transition process, first you have to speak with him when he's calm without blame or judgement, see if he can come up with any ideas of his own, talk through them all in a neutral/logical way even if they are ridiculous/horrible. Eventually come up with a plan you can agree on, and then you will have to watch him like a hawk and helicopter a bit to enforce it. When he goes to throw, hold his arm and say "WAIT. If we want to throw, we go outside." If he does not walk outside, carry him there, and close the door so he can't go back in. Replace the item in his hand with a soft ball and then, don't praise exactly, but empathise. Tell him to show you how cross he is. Be surprised and say things like "Wow, I've never been that cross before!" or the other way, "Come on, you're crosser than that, you can throw harder!" or just be there, depending on what seems to work best for him.

When he's calmed down, keep it low key, ask him if he's feeling better and whether he wants a hug, and then return to whatever activity you were doing. Praising overly just brings attention to the behaviour in the first place and is ultimately unhelpful.

Yes lou, that was unfair of me but they really are a bit hit or miss with their expertise. I'll find out what's happening soon so if you're interested I'll keep you updated. Plus it gives me somewhere to vent :)

If that's the case Oddboots, I'm looking forward to meeting them. It'll be interesting :)

Thanks BertieBotts, I do need a kinder approach, it's not really working for either of us even though he's been such a good boy for the last few days, he must sense something. I needed him to know how serious it was at first & to start thinking about his actions, even if he can't control them. I have eased off a bit now and we have a little chat if he attempts to throw & I catch him. I acknowledge his feelings though because I know it's not easy for him with a baby around messing his stuff up etc. Just a technicality but I can't put him outside at the moment because we're potty training (going really well) & he's got his little bum out all the time...

I'll find out what's happening tomorrow & I hope he's a good boy there in the meantime :)

Good luck with it all, I'm sure it will all be positive though.

Well replace the outside thing with whatever works - take the hard item out of his hand and give him a soft ball, or something. Tis just the action that you physically make them do the acceptable thing rather than the unacceptable one :)