Preschool concerns - am I being neurotic?

[preschoolconcerns]

I recently put my 2.8 yr old DD into pre school for 2 x 3 hour sessions a week. I have a 9 month old baby who was getting very little attention, plus I was finding it hard to stimulate DD as much as she neeeded so those were her reasons for going.

The only pre school that took them from school and had places is a 15 min drive away. DD is very happy there, all the children seem very happy. It has lots of good points about it - out in the countryside attached to a lovely village school, open door policy for playing outside, which DD loves to do.

But, my first impressions of it were that it seemed a bit vague and disorganised - e.g. we made an appt to look round and the manager just sort of said hello - no acknowledgement of who we were, or that we'd made an appt to look round. Asked if we wanted a form and just kind of left us standing there until we said "do you mind if we look round?"

They're just not very good at communicating what goes on, and I think it's partly because it's a relaxed, village school atmosphere maybe?

Anyway - the first time I left DD I sort of caught the eye of one of the keyworkers and said "so do I just leave her here and come back at 3?" She just sort of went "yeah" and that was that.

The thing is, they don't seem to have any kind of register to note whether children have arrived or not, they also allow children to turn up at any time and not just at the start of the session. They do have a thing where children take their names off a table and put them on a board but half the time this isn't set up in time for when we leave them. The keyworker never explained this name thing to me, it's just something I've seen other parents do.

I guess (sorry, I know this is long) is there a normal way for a pre school to operate? I feel slightly paranoid that they don't appear to have any way of knowing for definiite that my 2 year old is in their care, so how could they know if she was missing? Is this paranoia?

Actually, now that I read that back I don't think I am being paranoid. I think I will speak to the manager on MOnday and ask her to clarify how the children are accounted for. Could there be some kind of behind the scenes thing I don't know about?

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If they are registered with Ofsted, they should have something in place for recording the arrival and departure times of all children. IN my setting, you wouldn't necessarily know that the children's times were being recorded, but they are, as each child walks through the door.

The name card thing, is a self-registration board by the sounds of it and is used to help children recognise their name, time etc.

I think you are being a teeny bit paranoid about that tbh. Ask to see how they are recording these times to put your mind at rest.

We too allow the children to turn up at any time, providing it is within their allocated session time, for example one child was doing two full days but mum struggled to get him to us on time, so he would either come in at 10 or come in just before lunch. As long as it's within your allocated hours, I don't see what harm it is doing?

The lack of proper set up wouldn't necessarily concern me, but it would annoy me because it smacks of laziness. The lack of a proper show-round would annoy me too. I would go the other way and ask hundreds of pointless questions to keep the person busy (but then I'm a bit of an arse like that!)

THanks secretslattern.

I don't mind being told I'm paranoid I would rather know that I'm paranoid than think I've been leaving her somewhere unsafe for the last while, so thanks for being frank, I do appreciate it.

I'm quite happy for it to be able to be ok for us to be late, it was just that in combination with no clear registration process that bothered me.

I will ask on MOnday what their registration process is.

I have just taken my little boy out of a pre-school because of their lack of communication. Go with your gut instinct on this as to whether it is OK

I think it's sloppy that they haven't explained the self registration thing to you even if it's not their main way of recording that children are there, esp as you asked.

My DD's preschool sounds very similar to yours, in a small village etc. Their policy is for one of the two staff members to sit by the door and take a register each morning. The set up is the same at the end of the session, and the children are ticked off the register as they walk out the door.

The session times aren't flexible, all the kids turn up between 9-15 and 9.30 and the door leading outside is then locked to stop any children getting out. If you are late arriving for any reason you have to ring a doorbell to get someone to let you in.

One of the reasons I like this set up is that I know the preschool staff know exactly who is there and the door is then locked so the potential for escapees is reduced.

The set up you describe would worry me TBH. How do they know which children are there? How do parents and children get in and out?

Our preschool is in a town and there is a formal sign-in and sign-out procedure. All children arrive and leave at the same time. It's mornings only and not attached to a school.

I'd certainly want to know how they account for all the children.

What's their communication like in other respects? Do they tell you what your DD's been up to when you come to collect her? I'm trying to work out whether it's just an accountability/safety issue, or whether you have wider concerns about the preschool. Have you read the preschool's OFSTED report?

Thinkingaboutschools - that's interesting, thank you. Was your son at pre school long? Was it a specific thing they didn't communicate, or just a general lack of communication?

Onlyaphase - I've never seen anyone sitting near the door or observing who comes in. Generally, I will find one of the pre school assistants and just say "I'm leaving DD now" because I want SOMEONE to know she's there.

In a way it is secure. It's a pretty small mobile classroom with a foyer. The door has one of those buttons up high to release the door locks, but children are leaving lunch club at the same time that the afternoon children (which is what DD is) are arriving. So the door is in a constant state of being held open, or opened by other parents.

As a total aside, most of the other parents are also pretty rude and uncommunicative. On a personal level, I couldn't care less about this, don't want to make friends. But they strike me as the type who wouldn't look for the parent if a child wandered out of the door past them. For e.g. on Weds I opened the gate to go and a couple of littlies dashed past me out of the gate unsupervised. I stopped them and looked for their parents and said "are they with you?" I was being pleasant and friendly about it, just didn't want to let someone's children out without them knowing and just got a stiff nod and daggers look in my direction!

I don't know, I grew up in the countryside but live in suburbia now. Maybe I am just more uptight than they all are because we do have road danger on our doorstep!

Monkeymiss, thanks.

I have read the Ofsted report, it was good overall and good for safeguarding children. BUT, it was last inspected in 2006 so a lot could have changed.

I don't really get told what DD has been up to. Not by her keyworker, certainly. There are a couple of really nice ladies there - the deputy is very good and DD talks about her, she does make an effort to come and speak to me. All DD's keyworker has said is "she doesn't stop talking". Felt like saying, yes, I know that, that's why I sent her here, tell me something I don't know!

I think the reason it's crystallised now is because DD just got offered a place at the pre school round the corner from age 3 and I went there and it seemed SO well organised. I've had to pop back various times with forms and things and each time they've greeted us and remembered who we're there and why we're there. Whereas most of the staff at the existing place just look at me blankly when I turn up and DD is alredy there!

Preschool round corner sounds much better!!

Guess you just need to decide whether to keep sending DD to existing preschool for remaining few months :)

And also whether to try and instigate change in the current preschool. You could consider reporting them to OFSTED if you were really worried.

Monkeymiss, I guess that is my main issue. Take her out now and send her again in Sept to the new one. Or keep sending her to the existing one because she loves it even though I'm not enthralled by it.

Gah.

If she loves it, keep her there. And address the 'security' issues in the meantime.

Ours sounds a bit like yours
my kids went to nursery while I worked and to a local preschool just for a couple of hours when I didn't
compared to the nursery it seemed slapdash - ie in a village hall compared to a place with security doors
at the end of a session just a cheery bye at the door compared to nursery where we were given a blow by blow account of what had been eaten etc
but over time I could see the dcs really loved it there
midway through the term we got a newsletter explaining registrer procedure, and self registration
in the end it seemed the friendlier and the staff were older and more committed than the straight out of college ones at nursery
they were often previous parents of playgroup children who ended up on the staff
so I'd give it a bit longer tbh

Monkeymiss and compo, thanks so much. THat ha really helped.

Compo - that is one of the things I liked about her existing pre school - all of the people who work there are much older and have worked there a long time. A lot of them seem to really love the children - it's the management I guess I'm more bothered by than the staff.

I do also feel there's a bit of an atmosphere there, and I feel wrongfooted whatever I do. But I get the impression that there's some kind of internal politics going on, I know there's an "us and them" thing going on between the pre school and the school, just from what I've picked up on. DD is also my PFB, and althoug i left her to go back to work for 9 months when she was 13 months old I've never left her with anyone really (family or anyone) other than that.

But she is happy there and I think once I can get this register thing straight it shoudl be ok.

Hmm, sloppy. Our PS has just had its OFSTED and they have been told that they have to keep outside doors shut till parents can come in at 9.15 then lock them again till 12.15 so people cannot arrive late!!!! Not a bad idea. Can;r be great having poeple wandering in at all times.

My DD's pre school looked a bit like the one you are describing. However, behind the scenes ... a member of staff noted the time each child arrived/left. The children found their names and put them on a board. They sat on a rug about half an hour into the session for a formal register. They had a range of activities available and the door to the garden was always open. The children were supposed to arrive and leave at the correct times, but the pre school was flexible about this.

My DD loved it and learned a lot there. Do they welcome parent helpers, so you can go in for a session or two and get a real feel for the place? You do have to go with your gut instinct a bit and do not worry about asking questions about their procedures, they should be happy to tell you.

Preschoolconcerns - we found out that our child was disciplined only by our child telling us himself. It was not in his book. The book itself was full of generic comments with words I have never heard him use. These comments were echoed by another person which we know whose daughter attends the preschool. I was also not told who his key worker is. The place he goes to now is a world away! In terms of time - he was there for half a term before I removed him. Hope this helps