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Preschool education

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Oh lord, my mum has had a barney at the school. Head ringing me back, advice needed...

23 replies

Pinkjenny · 10/03/2011 10:34

We are not quite as rough as that title suggests Grin

Dd is 3.10yo and has been going to preschool since September, she does three mornings a week, alongside private nursery, which she does two full days at. She's a busy girl.

I had contemplated taking her out of preschool, but she has always seemed to enjoy it, and although she's never particularly keen to go, always looks like she's had a good time when I pick her up. This is in contrast to private nursery, which she absolutely adores, and begs to go to on a Saturday and Sunday.

Whilst I understand that the level of strictness and formality will be different in a school environment, I've never been very enthused by the atmosphere of the preschool classroom. But we have soldiered on, in the knowledge that she is not going to that school in September.

So, to this morning:

Dd has started crying when we drop her off. This is a relatively new development, as I say, in the past she was never excited to go, but nor did she cry. Protocol is that you stay for the first fifteen minutes, and then they call 'Carpet time' and the carers/parents leave. This morning dd was particularly upset. My mum was on the carpet trying to comfort her, tell her she'd have a lovely time, that kind of thing, and the teacher came over and said, 'Come on now, dd, you're being a very silly girl.' My mum (who is a bit of a softie), said, 'Actually, she's not being silly, she's upset.' Incidentally, telling dd that she is silly is a bit of a red rag to a bull.
The teacher completely ignored my mum, once aagain told dd she was being silly, and then just started to call the register.

My mum got up and left, and the TA followed her out. She told my mum that children are 'manipulative, and very clever', and that dd doesn't behave like this when I drop her off. This isn't strictly true, although I would guess that I am a little firmer when I am leaving than my mum is. My mum told the TA that she was unimpressed with the lack of empathy shown in the classroom, due to their age. TA said, 'They are not babies, she is only doing it for attention'. My mum said she didn't understand why all of a sudden dd had started getting distressed when leaving her, and said something like, 'A friendly face in there wouldn't go amiss'.

They left it there, I think, because ds was whinging in his pram. I rang to speak to the Head, not to start a war Grin, just because I felt that the situation needed acknowledging, as it had been my mum there and not me. She was unavailable, and the nosy receptionist asked me to outline what had happened in great detail. She was calling dd by the wrong name, and not understanding me clearly.

I know the Head will call me back and the whole thing will have been made out to be much more of a drama than it needs to be, and I'm not sure of the receptionist's ability to downplay things. She said, 'So TA called dd manipulative?' I said that hadn't been what I said, but I know that that is what she will tell the Head.

Ultimately, I feel a bit of a storm in a teacup. I am, however, unhappy at the general warmth and atmosphere myself, the Teacher and the TAs never say hello when you walk in, that kind of thing. They're just a bit, well, unfriendly.

Any advice?

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Fimbo · 10/03/2011 10:43

Oh dear, whilst it doesn't sound like the best place for your dd, I think your mum had dealt with it. Tbh I wouldn't have phoned up to go over matters again.

Pinkjenny · 10/03/2011 10:44

Yes, Fimbo, I'm inclined to agree now

WTF shall I say to the Head?

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Pinkjenny · 10/03/2011 10:47

Shall I just downplay it completely now, whilst trying to make the point?

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ShatnersBassoon · 10/03/2011 10:47

Tell the Head you've had time to think it over, and it's not as bad as it seemed at the time. They'll understand, they must get 'heat of the moment' phone calls all the time.

Pterosaur · 10/03/2011 10:49

If you're not that happy with the pre-school anyway, why not just take her out? Would it be possible to up her nursery hours a bit? My DD1 did 3 days a week in a private nursery until she started Reception. The private nursery was less obsessive about focused on early reading than the nursery attached to DD's school was, but she had a fantastic time playing and learning there, and acquired all the skills needed to catch up with the more able readers in Reception pretty quickly.

The pre-school should still be a warm, friendly and playful place for a little child to be, regardless of it's being attached to a school (and indeed our school's nursery was a very happy environment, even though it fancied itself a bit academically).

The only thing I'd say about the situation today is that I never think hanging around when dropping off does the child a lot of favours. I was always a kiss-and-run merchant myself. Sounds like you're expected to stay a while at your pre-school though.

Pinkjenny · 10/03/2011 10:51

Pterosaur - We have to stay for the first fifteen minutes.

Fimbo/Shatner - I do want to make my point about the atmosphere, though, in a non-confrontational way.

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amberleaf · 10/03/2011 10:56

Staying for the first 15 mins sounds like a really stupid idea?!

Just prolonging the agony of seperation imo.

Mamaz0n · 10/03/2011 10:56

I think the TA was right. She maybe worded it wrongly but children DO know that if they play up to certain adults they will get a better response than with others.

I don't understand why she is at a preschool that you have no intention of keeping her in once she is old enough to go to school?

A pre school is not a nursary and so it will have a different feel. they are also not being paid to be happy and smiley by the parents.

Pinkjenny · 10/03/2011 10:57

Mamaz0n - I couldn't disagree with you more, tbh.

I did expect to be flamed, though Grin

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flimflammery · 10/03/2011 11:03

So the teacher told a 3-year-old she was being a 'very silly girl' for crying when being left. Hmm. Not impressed. That together with the unfriendly atmosphere would put me off the place. But I don't think it's worth a drama with the headteacher. Just decide if you want to continue there or not. You could say to the head, 'my DD was upset this morning and I don't think the teacher and TA dealt with it very well. Obviously children need to learn that they will be OK when the carer has gone, but equally they don't need to be told off for having entirely natural anxieties. But I don't want to make a mountain out of a molehill, so I'll leave it there...'

ShowOfHands · 10/03/2011 11:04

Well you've got two problems. One what you say to the head and two, dd's reluctance to go anyway.

There are two things you can do with the head. One, as I think you want to, just say well the drop off was done by somebody else, there's been a bit of confusion but everything's okay, not to worry and leave it there. Or you could raise a couple of what I think are very valid points. I would take exception to calling a child silly twice to their face when they're distressed. Sounds like they don't know A at all! Even if they ascribe to the belief that children of that age will manipulate and behave differently for grandparents, then the way to encourage them into a setting isn't calling them silly. That's not selling the preschool or encouraging dd, that's accusing dd of a negative behaviour. You know me PJ, I think acknowledging a child's feelings is important. If they're dismissive of them and reduce them in that way then I perhaps can understand why A doesn't like it there.

Does she have a keyworker? Anybody there she seems to like or that understands her?

I think if she wasn't so happy at nursery you could perhaps question whether this is just normal reluctance for a child to go in and they're fine once in there. But she's demonstrating quite clearly that it might not be the place for her. And come September when it's all a bit bigger and a bit more formal, she needs to know that you've responded to her in the past. I think that's important. I'm not saying whip her out of there immediately but something needs to change if she's getting more distressed as time goes on. Like a keyworker she likes meeting her at the door. Or them actually discussing with you how she's responding to the place instead of labelling children manipulative or silly and not working towards improving the experience for her. Do they have parents evenings?

And she's always behaved differently for your Mum but I think she's also close to her and you can't dismiss the possibility that she feels secure enough with her to show her how she's actually feeling.

Some preschools aren't right for some children. It's sometimes as simple as that. And A's bright. She knows what's right for her.

Would you consider upping nursery hours? Would your Mum have her more often? If you did decide preschool isn't worth it.

caughtinanet · 10/03/2011 11:06

I probably wouldn't have rung up about such a relatively small incident but I agree with mamazon - why does your DD go there ?

Is there a playgroup attached to the school that she will attend that would be more suitable ?

Also agree that the 15mins thing is a bit mad, much better to just drop off and go and tbh that's what your mum should have done, it sounds like she may have made the situation a bit worse.

Its always more difficult when its your child though Smile

Pinkjenny · 10/03/2011 11:10

caughtinanet - I've always looked on with some derision at parents like this, and now, apparently I am one!!

flimflammery - am going to read that word for word.

It's the school at the end of the road, she goes to playgroup there and as she is such a sociable child, I always thought it would be good for her. The school she is attending doesn't have a preschool, and nursery are crammed.

I realise it was a huge mistake now, obviously.

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caughtinanet · 10/03/2011 11:14

pinkjenny - yes, its always different on the other side Grin

I've never been sure about the difference between a preschool and a playgroup (we only have playgroups near me) - where do the children who will go to school with your DD go before they start school ?

WhereTheWildThingsWere · 10/03/2011 11:15

Telling a three year old that she is 'a very silly girl' is totally unacceptable imo, I would have been furious.

Pinkjenny · 10/03/2011 11:21

SOH - I think you've hit the nail on the head. It's the inference that she was somehow misbehaving and the lack of encouragement that isn't appropriate.

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ShowOfHands · 10/03/2011 11:22

DD's at a preschool that's not attached to the school she will go to btw. The preschool manager reckons that about 80% of the children there won't go to that school. The school is shockingly bad. The preschool is absolutely excellent.

And the teachers are always happy/smiley with parents. One of their key points of focus is that they are a partnership with the parents. Which is as it should be imo.

Ballarat · 10/03/2011 11:25

Not sure exactly what happened but I think it's mad to wait 15min with a child who will be going to school in September.

My DD2 has just started preschool (3yrs). She's an early starter and doesn't go to school until next September but we have a quick kiss and goodbye at the door. Parents never go in at all. Children say goodbye then go in, take off their coats, hang them up and go sit on the carpet.

At 4yrs, I would certainly not expect parents to be in fussing tbh. The fact that parents go in and kinger about probably causes more angst than if they left them at the door.

Pinkjenny · 10/03/2011 11:30

The 15 minutes thing has always baffled me. My best friend's dd is in Reception now, and when her dd was in preschool, they stopped staying for the 15 minutes, and the school sent them a letter saying that the 15 minutes was important.

I suppose I just believe that preschool isn't school. It's not supposed to be a strict, formal environment, it exists to transition them into school, and get them used to it. I'm not suggesting that either the teacher or the TA should have come and given dd a hug and let her sit on their knee all morning, I just think the negativity was unnecessary.

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nailak · 10/03/2011 11:30

i think that the nursery ibu, at my dd 3yrs nursery they have a keyworker and if shes upset they will give her a hug and keep her close to them.

SenoritaViva · 10/03/2011 11:32

I would agree that the 15 minutes probably encourages some sadness on leaving.

I agree that there are some different issues.

  1. the 'molehill' that has turned into a mountain with the head and saying, I really feel this has got out of hand, however, there are some minor issues I have an issue with
  1. The teacher and TA's attitude and words. I am a tough love mum and definitely no softie, nevertheless I do not think it is right to undermine a child's feelings by stating they are silly. Secondly the TA's words were unacceptable I think.
  1. Your DD does not seem happy there which is telling, it might be highlighted because she loves nursery so much but I think her feelings are a reflection of the treatment of point 2. My DD (similar age and situation) 's preschool would NEVER behave like this.
SenoritaViva · 10/03/2011 11:34

Yes Nailak, when my DD is sad they make real efforts to ask her what she'd like to do and know her well enough to use the things she loves (Thomas) and not offer things she hates (dressing up). They should be keeping 'telling off' for behavioural issues etc. not feelings.

Pinkjenny · 10/03/2011 13:22

THanks all for the input. Will update after the Head has contacted me.

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