Should I Listen to DS' Pre-School Teacher?

[tjandpootle]

My DS goes to an Ofsted 'outstanding' pre-school which I have been impressed with. He's been there since being 2.5 and has now just turned 4.

The pre-school 'Head' has expressed some concerns about my DS and although she hasn't wanted to label him, suggested potential signs along lines of dyslexia, AD(H)D or mild end of Autistic Spectrum.

I recognise the symptoms she mentions - general clumsiness, behind with some gross motor skills eg. hopping, easily distracted, daydreamer, poor concentration, poor short-term memory. However, can this not be said of many 4-year-old boys? He writes his name and all numbers, can read all letters of the alphabet and has started to blend simple 3 letter words. He uses complex language and has a great imagination.

A friend who has her DD at the same pre-school told me today that the same 'Head' pulled her aside and said that she suspected her DD of having ADHD. I know this little girl and I cannot see it. She is very bright and could just be bored and frustrated, being a September birthday and the oldest in the pre-school.

Do you think the 'Head' is just looking for labels for the kids and we should take what she says with a pinch of salt? Or are we just in denial. How can she make such diagnoses on 4 year-olds ffs?

She sounds to me like she has just Been On a Course.

It sounds like very normal 4 yr old behaviour to me, and the Head sounds a bit bonkers over enthusiastic.

What has she suggested in terms of assessment or support for her suspicions?

There's no motive for the Head to stick labels on the kids, though, is there? What's in it for her? I do agree from what you say that your DS doesn't sound like an obvious case of having the issues suggested, and that everything you say does sound completely normal, but it's the sort of thing that will niggle at you unless you confirm it one way or the other. Has the Head suggested a referral to an Ed Psych?

She rightly said that he couldn't formally be assessed until he's around 6. Until then we're to make sure we're very encouraging with everything he does to make sure his self-esteem doesn't plummet. We're like that anyway.

She also suggested he'd benefit from small class sizes at Primary so he can't drift off into his own world! All state primaries round here are over-subscribed so maxed out at 30 kids per class so no chance there. Unless we go private...

I don't think pre-school heads are trained in diagnosing SEN, if YOU are concerned then you could speak to GP/ health visitor who will hopefully make a referral to a pediatric team. TBH from what you've written he sounds quite bright - he can't be that easily distracted if he has learnt to do all that stuff.

Doesn't sound worrying to me. He's been there ages so he is probably a bit bored. And academically I don't think you can worry about his academic progress if he's already blending and writing his name, lots of kids (especially boys IME) can't even recognise numbers or letters when they enter reception.

Also IIRC you can't really test for dyslexia until age 7ish?

If you're not worried just wait until reception and see how he gets on.

You mention he has quite a few traits of ASD/dyslexia/ADHD but go on to say he is bright

Most people who have the above of being bright, so please don't think they aren't

Nothing wrong with traits being watched, in fact it is important that they are. If noticed, steps can be put in place to ENABLE your son. If he grows out of it, then no damage done whatsoever. If not, he will already have coping strategies in place for him to cope

A label doesn't mean anything other than a child can be helped

'I don't think pre-school heads are trained in diagnosing SEN' Chewit, oh yes they are!
That is exactly what her job is, ok, not diagnosis, maybe, but early signs are sometimes missed, and early intervention is key to children reaching their full potential.

What harm is there in getting someone in to the setting to assess him?
FWIW, all the signs are there, the clumsiness, the lack of concentration coupled with the 'being bright'
I don't think for one moment the head wants to 'label' children. Early support is what she is looking for.

I think it's a bit odd to mention 3 completely different SNs. OK, there can be some overlap between ASD and ADHD but dyslexia?

Perhaps sit on it for a while and you could mention it to his teacher when he starts school next year and see what they think.

Actually the one she hasn't mentioned is dyspraxia, which based on what you have said is what I would have thought she might mention. I would take on board what she has said whilst taking the view that boys often are slower to develop these skills.

Get him busy with play dough, bead threading, using scissors etc and help him with his hopping, running, jumping, ball catching etc. Try not to worry too much at this stage, which I know is easier said than done but just keep an open mind to what she has said, taking into consideration that he is still very young.

Children with the conditions you note are often very bright indeed. Headteachers are indeed trained in spotting early signs. It sounds Iike she has given you some good advice. The first instinct is often to deny but if you feel she is right in her observations why not get some extra help?

I would wonder dyspraxia too. ASD can be diagnosed at a very young age, and the younger the better. If you are concerned go to your GP.
The head of my son's nursery suggested possible epilepsy, he was tested (twice as he first set of tests were inconclusive) but it was negative. I then learnt she had epileptic children. In fact my son is dyslexic, and I think they were spotting early signs.
If you are worried flag it to your GP, otherwise just note it and go further if he has problems later.

Qualified Nursery Nurse here and former SENCO. (special educational needs co-ordinator).
I was taught that it's not the nurseries job to diagnose anything. Nobody at nursery is qualified enough. They shouldn't really have suggested possible things either really. They should have talked about concerns they have in certain areas and backed it up with several observations proving your DS is not quite where he should be in his development. Then you as the main carer can take things forwards with the nursery helping.

But just because they should have avoided labels doesn't mean they have to be wrong.
If you get him checked out and get given the all clear you could help train the headteacher a bit!

I'm not sure about dyslexia - might be too early to really tell.

With Autism/ASD it might be worth looking at websites to understand what to look out for. I know a lovely little pre-school boy and he is so obviously on the spectrum (I work in a special school with lots of bright children) but his parents aren't ready to consider it just yet.

How does he interact with other people, does he get stuck in loops of actions/words, does he have fixations, can he express himself well, is he in his own world, does he understand how other people might feel, is he empathic?

It might be worth talking to your health visitor about it if you have any worries.

Hmmm, and why shouldn't he drift off into his own world, age 4?

He sounds very normal to me. Maybe I'm recognizing several traits of my son :)

I would say thank you very much and then carry on as you are, just supporting/loving your son as you do.

Maybe have what she said in the back of your mind, but remember that they change and develop so much so quickly (sometimes) at this age.

At a new pre-school after a move the leader asked us for a meeting as son was not really mingling, was off in his own world etc etc. Some concerns were raised over he wasn't interacting etc. I think he was just shy and normal in a new place! He was playing with other children at home fine.

Of course they're all different and we knew our son was perhaps more different than most (re fantastic imagination/off in his own world). But we were also confident he was not autistic as relates to children and adults well when he is comfortable in the environment.

I think at this age it's way too early to start interventions, unless you the primary carer have concerns and the behaviour is extreme, however as others have said, you don't want them to be without support that they could have if there is an issue so it's worth bearing comments like this in mind.

It is totally pre school's job to be picking up early signs of a potential problem. The earlier things are spotted the quicker children can get the help they need. Assessing a child for SEN is a lengthy process too. They should not however attempt to diagnose things and it was wrong of her to suggest those labels to you. They should be carefully observing him, discussing those observations with you and then referring you to your health visitor or other appropriate agency if necessary.

My son is 33 months with speech delay. We have him tested in Singapore in December and due to this he does have some social skill problems. We live in Tokyo and it took us more than 2 months to get a pathologist. We changed school in January as the previous one had a open concept without much structure. Now he goes to school 5 times a week so he can mix with kids. After 10 attendance we had a ptc and a caregiver mentioned that he might be autistic. He is behind with his language and we saw him lining up his biscuit snack once. This made us worried sick and all the information in the net was scary. Ever since then every little thing my son does in school is viewed as not normal. He started shouting with excitement for no apparent reason. He was quiet during playtime. The principal spoke to me and feels that we should have a shadow and even gave me the contact. During the 45mins talk, your child is special, special needs and autism was mentioned. I repeatedly mentioned that we have done a primary test and the physiologist recommended speech therapy. We started therapy on saturday and my son was very sick and when I called on Tuesday the principal was more concerned that he missed his 2nd session. We live in Tokyo the cost of school per month is USD1930, 12 session of speech therapy is USD2000 and if we do the shadow for 2 hours a day in school comes up to about USD2100. We do not get any insurance assistance. What my concern is the school has already labelled our son as special needs.

I think that regardless of whether your ds has problems or not, the Head's approach is really unhelpful. She has suggested some really worrying conditions without giving you any ideas as to what you should do. Not sure why she thinks his self esteem is the issue if he has any of the things she mentioned, except perhaps for dyslexia (my ds is dyslexic and it did affect his self esteem, that is before we managed to get practical help for him).

I'm thinking that it would be more helpful to suggest talking to your GP or health visitor about getting an assessment (not sure why she thinks he couldn't be referred to a physio for an assessment if it's the gross motor skills that are the biggest issue). Dyslexia is essentially a gap between written and spoken language skills, and a four year old would be expected to have a gap there, especially if they are bright. Other things that were suggested to us for ds (he's not the most coordinated child and concentration has been an ongoing issue) were enrolling him in a gym class and staring martial arts.

They should be able to bring in the relevant teams with your consent at pre-school - at least this is how it works here. Must be done with the approval of the parents though and too often parents are not keen to start the process.

Seems a little harsh to dismiss the head of the pre-school for raising concerns and observations. OK so the labels were a little wrong but the head of your pre-school will have training and experience and is absolutely the person who should be able to spot early signs.

If early intervention would result in the best outcome for your son so I can't understand why you'd consider not taking action.