Should she be annoyed with nursery?

[nappyaddict]

My friend's DD (3.10) still occasionally has a dummy. Last week she was upset before she went to nursery and asked for it. Her mum had tried to get it off her before she went into nursery but she got upset again so she let her go in with it. When she went to pick her up her DD was hysterical because the staff had taken it away from her as soon as she walked in the door and wouldn't let her have it back. They told her off, made her sit in the naughty spot and put a sad face on the behaviour sticker chart.

I know a few kids have a dummy at that age but only at home and at bed time. But I think 3.10 is very old for a dummy! How long has she been going to nursery for?

I think maybe nursery went a bit far but what was her behaviour like when she got there? If she was throwing an almighty tantrum then I can understand it. The nursery can't let everyone have a comfort toy at that age it would be a nightmare for staff. Some of the mums have even said the nursery being strict has helped at home and have wanted to get rid of them before and nursery helped.

Does the nursery have a "no dummy" policy?
I presume that the naughty spot/sad face was because of the way she reacted when the dummy was taken away.

TBH I think mum should have taken it away before going into nursery.

I would hope that the nursery have communicated with this mum before the incident occurred so that they each understood the other's position on the use of dummies.

If the child was genuinely distressed I would expect them to let her use the dummy if that was the parent's wish. However it very much depends on the manner in which she asked for it and how long the whole episode lasted. I can see that it is not practical or desirable to have a bunch of pre-school children demanding dummies every five minutes but there again I have childminded five and six year olds who have a comfort objects in their school bag for use when they get to my house after school.

It's a matter of trust and communication. If you friend is concerned about what happened she needs to make an appointment to talk it through with them. She also needs to decide whether she trusts them to treat her and her daughter with sensitivity and respect. If she does trust them to do this then she should chill. If she doesn't trust them to do it she should look at changing settings.

They would not have done this if the child's comfort object was a teddy bear - I say pull her out. They were cruel. Naughty step AND sad face for being upset when you are three? Why are we so mean to our children these days! God, I had a dummy until I was six!

Yes, she should be annoyed, if a child is attached to a dummy then surely you should show a little sensitivity when taking away their comfort object, and not punish them..shocking insensitivity IMO.

At that age our nursery works with the parents and child for a dummy to not be used in the day at nursery. But they would never be that harsh. Hardly encouraging her with positivity to give up the dummy.

regardless of what they might think about dummies, it is completely unacceptable for them to not have taken this approach without discussing it with your friend.

The child is nearly 4 ... were she a month or 2 older she would be starting school in September. Would we expect a school child to have a dummy in school as a comforter? She doesn't normally have the dummy in nursery so it would probably seem reasonable to nursery to take it away. If it had been a teddy, the nursery staff would probably have encouraged her to put the teddy on the side.

Has mum actually spoken to the nursery staff about dummy use? Does she actually know what happened? I can imagine an entirely "reasonable" scenario whereby staff members asked the girl if she would (say) put the dummy to one side during circle time. The girl is quite happy with this but then throws a tantrum later. Nursery (used to her coping perfectly well without a dummy) then deal with the tantrum and expect her to manage without the dummy (as she does every other day).

She didn't speak to them when she dropped her off because you just drop them off in the playground and they go in themselves. She asked why her DD was so upset at pick up time and they said what had happened. On a normal day she copes perfectly well without needing a comforter but for some reason on this particular day she was upset before leaving the house and wanted it. She tried to take it off her DD as she knows nursery encourage all comforters to be put in bags but presumed they are given out for a short period of time if asked for and then encouraged to be put back again. Do you think this would be an unreasonable request?

I imagine the telling off and sad face were for the tantrum, not for wanting her dummy.
I don't know why a child this old would need a dummy, personally.
If your friend feels the nursery were heavy-handed then she needs to speak to them.

even if 3 is too old for a dummy i'd be horrified if my child had spent all day upset and distressed because of the way staff treated him on arrival. sounds like they didn't deal with it at all well - even if no dummies allowed then it's just cruel to cause that much upset and distress to a young child. what is that teaching the child?? if you take you're time, are sensitive to the child and negotiate that child would have happily put the dummy away and had a good day. poor thing.

I think the nursery were right in taking it away, and I think a child of 3.10 is perfectly old enough to understand rules.

And Colditz you are not necessarily right that if the comforter was a teddy they wouldn't have taken it away. At my DSes pre-school all comforters are taken away and not allowed during nursery time. You get them back at home time

Within settings that I have worked in I take dummies,comfotors off the child fairly soon after they arive and put it in my special magic box that looks after it for them 9 times out of 10 they don't moan and if they ask for it I say at mummy time.

I am not horrible about it but teh children know I am not going to budge.

I would never send them to a naughty step or anything.

What happened to the idea of partnership with parents. This is a terrible way to treat such a young child. To take a comforter of any sort away from a crying child is ridiculous, to add insult to injury by using a naughy step (banned in most nurseries)compounds the bad practice. I would report them to Ofsted and expect an apology from the manager.

I'd be bloody furious!! My DS (admittedly a year younger, 2.11) started nursery a couple of months ago and he still has a dummy for sleep times and for when he's upset. He takes it in his bag with him, and some days when he's a bit tearful because he's missing mummy or something has upset him (he's quite sensitive), they let him get it from his bag. He has it for a while, and then they're brilliant at getting him to take it out himself and put it back in his bag once he's cheered up.

If they have a no dummy/no comforter rule at this nursery (or anywhere else for that matter), then why on earth do they let children bring comforters with them in their bags?? Either allow them there or not. Plenty of 3 and 4 year olds still have a comforter of some kind - dummy, teddy or whatever. Frankly, I would see it as a serious failing of the nursery that they weren't able to manage the situation by letting the child have a dummy for a bit, calm her down and then get her to put the dummy away. To leave a child of that age hysterical is totally unacceptable.

(Also, it sounds very odd to me that the children are just dropped off in the playground, with no communication between staff and parents. DS's key worker always says hello to me, 'receives' DS from me, asks me how he is today (any news she should know about), and then takes him over to the window so he can wave to me as I drive away. IMO this little transition makes all the difference in the world to him settling well and having a good day.)

i agree with menopausemum, this is disgracefull. i am the manager of a nursery, our children are able to use either comforters or dummies if they need them, (once they get into the group, they soon forget them as they spend time with their key person and start having fun,! something which certainly sounded lacking in this instance.) i would make a formal complaint, so that it is recorded in their complaints book, otherwise it will be swept under the carpet and certainly happen again. i am completely dismayed at the naughty step, a good nursery should not need one. i would contact ofsted, as this needs to be acted upon not only for your own child but for all the others. This is extremely bad for the child's emotional development, self esteem and well being something better nurseries aim to develop and build upon.

Is time out really seen as a negative thing in nurseries then? Would Ofsted look down on time out? I didn't realise that! Will definitely mention that to her.

Nothing wrong with time out as such which generally speaking should be 1 minute per year of child's age but a naughty step is different in that it's a humiliation and other children know what's happening. Time out can be used to remove child from a situation and give time to calm down and also be used for an explanation of what the child is doing wrong and what they should be doing instead.

They do call it time out - not naughty step. I just called it naughty step because time out takes place on a blue plastic step stool (like what you use in the bathroom)

"I think the nursery were right in taking it away, and I think a child of 3.10 is perfectly old enough to understand rules."

I agree with 3 year old supposidely being able to go through the day without a dummy but I imagine if she is still using one it is because her parents are OK with it. I think it is very harsh to "punish" a 3yo for it if the usual rule for her is "it is ok" to have a dummy.

I have no real experience of it though as my dcs never had one.

nappy addict, you mention the child was hysterical when her Mummy arrived to pick her up - but was she hysterical the whole time she was at nursery? Or did she just start the hysterics when Mummy arrived? It's possible, after her time out, she was perfectly all right the rest of the time, then just decided to act up when it was home time.

Incidentally, I think at almost 4 is pretty old to be still using a dummy anyway. Perhaps time your friend started weaning her off it.

I would be furious if my child who does not use a dummy was around another child who did. My 3 (8, 5 and 2) have never used dummies. They cause poor speech and teeth and by the age of 3.10 the child is way too old. Its also about control if the nursery allow her to use a dummy when other children arent then she will slowly begin to disobey the other rules. A dummy would never be allowed in a school nursery. If the child has SEN then another comforter should be found which will not have a negative impact on the other children as a dummy would. My child was very attached to the bottle but does not have one at nursery as its not appropriate and to be honest this just helps her to give th ebottle up at home. The punishment would be for the tantrum which the other children need to see punished or else they will all behave in that way.

Why would a bottle or dummy have a negative impact on other children over a different comforter?

because many of those children may have given up the bottle or comforter they are not age appropriate.