Collapse now and avoid the rush

[MrsBobtonTrent]

I've been interested in catabolic collapse for a while and it makes a lot of sense for me. John Michael Greer writes about the concept of "collapse now and avoid the rush" as a way of being prepared to weather future uncertainty and decline. I like this idea and have tried to futureproof and de-complicate our lives to make things less of a shock should our lifestyles take a hit.

For example we have tried to live in places (and in ways) that mean our lives would be only minorly inconvenienced by the loss of a car (or inability to fuel it):- so living within easy walking distance of work, schools, shops, library etc. We use the freezer a lot for preserving food and we're trying to slowly learn and move towards ambient storage methods (bottling, drying, pickling) so that we would be less inconvenienced by power cuts (or the price of electricity to run a chest freezer). Both of these things are doable without madly drawing attention to ourselves as nutters, but will ease our lives in times of financial or other instability.

Does anyone else do similar and, if so, what are your ideas?

@Helloandgoodmorning2 Tell me about your instant pot canner! Very interested - did you buy it in the UK?

Also what do you use your grinder for? I have a friend who uses it to grind flour from wheatberries (for nutritional reasons) - is that your game as well?

@PrimalScreaming I grew up with acorn flour but I'm pretty sure we bought it ready processed. Would be interested in hearing about your experiments. It made nice pancakes and flatbreads. Apparently dandelions make a good coffee substitute, but I don't drink it so wouldn't be able to confirm. I'm a tea drinker and quite fancy growing a little patch one day when I have a bit more time. For now, I make my own blend of dried parsley, blackcurrant leaves, raspberry leaves and fennel seed. And I dry our mint for tea as well. Not sure how I'd make hot chocolate though!

I personally don't see the point of living as though we're in a nuclear apocalypse when we're not. For me it's about appreciating how easy life is right now, and preparing mentally to adjust to a time it might be harder.

FWIW at the height of my prepping, I was always concerned about flu and terrorism, to the extent that we actually moved to a very rural location, and now we're entirely reliant on cars and petrol! I also amassed quite a stash of tins in a huge old barn, but it was honestly a PITA always checking and rotating. And then covid hit, and it wasn't even a tiny bit useful 🤷‍♀️

These days I focus much more on physical health and mental resilience (and I do still make sure we always have 2-3 weeks' basic food in).

I think a problem with this is that you don’t know what form the next crisis will take. Loss of tech/power- you’ll be pleased you got rid of your freezer, didn’t rely on the internet etc. Another pandemic + lockdown- you’ll wish you’d bought another freezer and a faster connection. Etc.

Being aware of the possibilities is good. Making changes now based on the likelihood of one possibility over another is risky.

I think you're right @GrapeNerve.and make a good point. Which is why I said I have been doing this subconciously.My motivation has not been societal collapse but wanting to live more in tune with nature and the wheel of the year and be more self sufficient and self reliant for my own satisfaction.

None of my decisions have been based on collapsing now to avoid the rush but rather a desire to try and do things for myself. It may well help if there was a collapse, might not... but that isn't my main focus for doing it!

@GrapeNerve I agree, we don't know. I love my big chest freezer and use it a lot. But I'm keen to explore other storage methods as well. It would be a massive shame for me to lose my freezer contents in the event of a power cut. And should electricity get too expensive or unreliable to run the freezer, I would keep it unplugged for food storage. I'm not getting rid of it, as I don't know what the future holds. I like to have options. But people managed for a long time without freezers and it's interesting to explore some of those methods. I also have a lot more space to keep ambient foods than frozen (my freezer is pretty rammed at the moment, and as I use up the garden veg it becomes prime time to fill with Christmas-season meat bargains), as well as it being less affected by power cuts. But the freezer is user-friendly and straightfoward and I'll certainly continue to make good use of it. It's one weapon in my food storage arsenal. I just like to have others as well.

I'm not harking back to dark ages and living in a mud hut. I just think it is wise to consider how I would manage without something. A chain is only as strong as its weakest link. It's not just societal collapse, but also a job loss or life changing injury.

I'm late to this thread, having just found it this morning. Are people still up for discussing?

Also a follower of JMG, he's written some good stuff on collapsing now and avoiding the rush.

I am always up for discussing!

What are you working on?

Got to go out now, but will reply in a bit :-)

I'm working on loads of things 😜It all started when I was about six and started asking questions about the lives of my grandparents when they were young. They were all born in late Victorian days so grew up in a different world to me. How laundry was done led to a conversation and drawings of poss tubs and mangles, then came hand milking cows and making butter, how to light a fire and so on. So many questions and I wanted to learn how to make and do. That urge never went away, so here I am doing things.

In my 20s I worked on a museum farm as a dairy maid, mainly making butter and soft cheese, but the job also involved an inevitable amount of shit shovelling and general animal care. Wrangling cows and geese was interesting. Loved learning but the farm was badly run and I moved on. Later, I spent several months living on an off-grid small holding and realised that the only thing I truly missed was a hair dryer to use in winter. Living there, I grew vegetables, cut hay with a scythe and then dried it on specially made drying racks. Learned how to brine meat so it keeps for many weeks (I'll dig out the recipe and put it up). The loo there was an outdoor composting toilet and it was useful to find out how those work, though not great if you need to go early on a snowy morning. It's all doable, mind.

Me and DH are now on-grid, living in a tiny house with a large garden where we planted fruit bushes and trees and grow vegetables. I went to horticultural college to learn more about all that. Propagation is a huge deal - making new plants, grafting fruit trees, saving seed and all that.

Current favourite things to do are baking bread using freshly milled grain, making sausages, lacto-fermentation, making vinegar, drying mushrooms and growing plants. I really want to get on to making and smoking bacon but need to make the time to get around to that. We have a tiny hot smoker that will take a couple of fish but bacon will need something a great deal bigger. It will be interesting to see how it goes. I really want bacon that is properly smoked so it's intense. We bought a vintage German hand cranked meat slicer in preparation, like this one: larouedupasse.com/en/products/trancheuse-a-main-blanche-vintage-avec-socle-en-formica-marron?variant=33244178284679

I don't consider any of what I do to be remotely hairshirtism, I've just always taken great pleasure in knowing how to do stuff and then doing it.

Re hand tools, yes! Love them and buy old tools where I can find them. I can't stand the noise and smell that power tools make, it drives me nuts.

As for any 'collapse of society' talk, I'm with @MrsBobtonTrent on this one and see that we're going through a long slow descent, where there will be a decline, a plateau and then another decline, with things never quite getting back to how they were beforehand. It's gradual enough that it may not be noticed but it's happening and happens to all large cultures.

@PrimalScreaming what sort of dehydrator have you got? would you recommend it?

Bumping in the hope of dehydrator info! DH tried to make a solar dehydrator this summer, but it needs further work. I've been using the oven after use, but results are variable! I am drowning in pears this year and a reliable dehydrating option would be/would have been useful.

I am finding in the real world that fellow collapsniks are coming out of the woodwork - much more acceptance of the idea. It's getting easier to find allies. How are you all getting along?

I live by the sea so maybe I need to master sea fishing and edible seaweed ID.
Get myself a few rods and a well stocked tackle box.

Learn how to dress a crab.

I've thought for quite some time that extreme collecting of goods is a bit pointless since there's always someone out there bigger and stronger to take them off you.
I think building community is a really important thing to do if you can.
I think learning skills is extremely important. Attending all health checks while we still have an NHS.
Absolutely not having debt.
Trying to have an alternative heating source where you live.
Knowledge of your local area.
Foraging skills.

Yes, this is the way. Skills are portable too. And being valuable in a community (due to skills, knowledge etc.) is going to be protective as well as being eminently barterable. And I am find these things very insulating from the current CoL issue (which is part of the gradual decline).

i do like nice things. But mostly we've tried to set our lives up so that things are luxuries rather than essential for life (eg being walkable to work, school, shops etc. so we don't HAVE to have a car).

I would like to be less reliant on freezers - always interested in anyones thoughts on that!

I've always been a prepper by nature, handed down to me by a grandma who lived through WW2.

I agree that stockpiling isn't the answer in a truly apocalyptic situation as it can be stolen, so I focus on skills and what will be will be if that happens!

My focus is on buying my family time if something shitty happens, living on less and polluting less, so i dont have to work so much/hard and because I dont like the thought of contributing to pollution. I also really dont like the idea of digital id and will fight that as long as possible, which might mean not having access to services 🤷‍♀️ i finished my last corporate contract (hopefully) recently and intend to work locally in jobs i actually enjoy that i dont take anything home with me iyswim.

I've downgraded to an older, cheaper, more mechanical car. It saves me on fuel and parts and i have no finance payment. I saved some cash for a replacement before i left my office job, i may even buy a second as backup/for parts.

Dug the bike out of the garage, intending on getting electric bikes too and just rely on the cars wayyy less - in fairness most of my mileage was for work anyway. Intend to go on cycling/camping expeditions closer to home as holidays rather than driving.

Bought a granny rolly shopping trolley so i can get my bits from the market in town rather than giving more money to supermarkets, means i dont have to rely on car again...

Buy in bulk so less shopping to do, few weeks' grace in any pandemicy events. Trying to move away from freezing and towards fermenting, pickling etc to stay ambient. Focussing on sourdough to reduce reliance on yeast.

Grow as much as I can although garden isn't huge so self sufficiency nowhere near. I raise rabbits from the lawn/foraged fodder and quail so theres meat, pelts and eggs. OH (not a prepper, thinks i'm mad) wanted a koi pond and summer house and i found the loss of land mortifying so we compromised and will build a summer house over a pond, which will contain trout rather than koi 😎

I work in partnership with a local farmer and keep sheep for dairy but they also provide meat, wool and skins.

Clothes are my next frontier - i can hand sew teddies and cushions and things but realistically need to learn the tailoring of staples - trousers, shirts and knickers!

I'm a keen knitter but guilty of stockpiling yarn and patterns and intend to cut this down to sock knitting only so i will actually get it done and use the results, i'll also gift everyone i know enough to give christmas gifts hand knitted socks and if they dont like it tough!

I know how to hunt, falconry as well as shooting, so could potentially replace my domestic meat sources if required.