Page 2 | Anyone got a defibrillator?

OhIlovetosew · 2023-12-27T08:33:32+00:00

Had a bit of a scary moment during Christmas and although the nearest defibrillator is about three minutes from me I can’t help feeling that six minutes and then getting it up and running eight to ten minutes too long. this is probably going to be an ongoing scary issue, defibrillators seem to start about £1000 but on eBay you can buy refurbished ones for around £250+ wondering if it would be a wise move to get a refurbished one for peace of mind but I don’t have any knowledge of them and the few I looked at said pads expire on certain dates and I’m wondering about the batteries and do they need to be plugged in. any advice gratefully appreciated

Lougle · 27/12/2023 14:57

Nellieinthebarn · 27/12/2023 14:21

To all those saying call an ambulance for cardiac arrest, my husband had a heart attack in May. We waited 2 hours for an ambulance. The paramedics were in the house less than 10 minutes when he went into cardiac arrest. Luckily they did restart his heart with CPR and a defibrillator, but he came too close to dying for want of medical support getting there in time. You can no longer rely on an ambulance getting to you in a reasonable time.

That's awful. Do they not have Community First Responders in your area?

ANiceSliceOfCake · 27/12/2023 15:01

Fair enough OP. Good luck.

I wonder if there are a few neighbours who may chip in ?

Nellieinthebarn · 27/12/2023 15:29

Lougle · 27/12/2023 14:57

That's awful. Do they not have Community First Responders in your area?

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Yes, he was 2 hours, the actual ambulance was 2 hours and 5 minutes. They were parking the ambulance when I had to run out and get them as the first responder was doing CPR, and DH needed the defibrillator and intubating. I'm not complaining, they saved his life, but it was a close call and not the Ambulance service's fault its been underfunded and run into the ground.

Bluelightbaby · 27/12/2023 21:57

@Nellieinthebarn can I please ask what the initial call was for ? Was it initially for chest pain or similar ? Cardiac arrest is our absolute highest priority call, I’ve never ever heard of anyone waiting that long before, unless the original call was for something else and it progressed into cardiac arrest ?

for a cardiac arrest (in my area) we send two ambulances, a team leader and HEMS (if available)

NameChange1412 · 27/12/2023 23:17

Bluelightbaby · 27/12/2023 21:57

@Nellieinthebarn can I please ask what the initial call was for ? Was it initially for chest pain or similar ? Cardiac arrest is our absolute highest priority call, I’ve never ever heard of anyone waiting that long before, unless the original call was for something else and it progressed into cardiac arrest ?

for a cardiac arrest (in my area) we send two ambulances, a team leader and HEMS (if available)

My Dad had two ambulances on scene within ten minutes, including two critical care paramedics. Bystander CPR was underway within a minute of collapse and they had already got ROSC after one shock (first arrest was VF) but he arrested again as the crew arrived and was in asystole for most of the second period of downtime, with small periods of VF in between (he received eight shocks in total!) and had the Lucas on him for the latter 20 minutes of his collapse.

I’m so grateful for everything you do and my wonderful Dad is still alive because of the skills and knowledge of the bystanders and the nine paramedics who attended the call. One of the CC paramedics came up to ITU to see Dad a few days ago and said he had just ‘had a feeling’ he’d make it. He got a very tearful, snotty hug from me.

Boils my piss that you’re still called ‘ambulance drivers’ by so many!

Nellieinthebarn · 29/12/2023 11:42

Bluelightbaby · 27/12/2023 21:57

@Nellieinthebarn can I please ask what the initial call was for ? Was it initially for chest pain or similar ? Cardiac arrest is our absolute highest priority call, I’ve never ever heard of anyone waiting that long before, unless the original call was for something else and it progressed into cardiac arrest ?

for a cardiac arrest (in my area) we send two ambulances, a team leader and HEMS (if available)

The original 999 call was for chest pain and head injury, with a history of going to the GP for chest pain that day (Don't get me started on that one) My husband had got out of bed with chest pain, gone to the loo, experienced crushing chest pain on the loo, and collapsed and whacked his head on the metal loo roll holder. He was half awake and I managed to help/drag him back to bed.

Reported symptoms of severe chest pain, breathlessness and confusion with a bleeding head injury. Was told he was high priority and ambulance would be there ASAP. 60 minutes later I called again, reported same symptoms with worse chest pain, and dipping in and out of consciousness. Was told again he was high priority, and was advised against trying to lump him into the car to take him myself. (I was panicking a bit by then)

45 minutes later I called again, pretty frantic, and was told a first responder was on his way. 15 minutes later he turned up and was just taking a ecg reading, and telling my husband he was having a heart attack and he would be going to hospital, when my husbands heart stopped beating and he stopped breathing. The ambulance had just turned up and was parking in the drive. The first responder told me to go and get them to just come in now with their heart kit. He was doing CPR. Ambulance crew came in, dragged him off the bed and set up the defibrillator and stuck an oxygen thing down his throat. He was shocked twice, and his heart started, and he was trying to breathe on his own.

I was told to get some stuff ready for the hospital, so I chucked some essentials in a carrier bag, put down dog food and extra water and grabbed my purse and phone, and off we went. I was told he might arrest again in the ambulance and we would have to stop and do CPR again, and that he was far from out of the woods. Luckily we made to hospital and the cardiac team had assembled and he went straight in for an angiogram. Ended up with 3 stents. I count each day as a bonus. The NHS saved his life, but it was too close for comfort.

So I didn't call 999 for cardiac arrest, but for very clear symptoms of a heart attack, head injury, and concussion in a 75 year old man who had reported chest pain earlier that day to his GP.

Doseofreality · 29/12/2023 11:46

Yes. I have one. Keep it in the cupboard next to the pre purchased coffin incase it isn’t successful.

Bluelightbaby · 29/12/2023 13:23

Nellieinthebarn · 29/12/2023 11:42

The original 999 call was for chest pain and head injury, with a history of going to the GP for chest pain that day (Don't get me started on that one) My husband had got out of bed with chest pain, gone to the loo, experienced crushing chest pain on the loo, and collapsed and whacked his head on the metal loo roll holder. He was half awake and I managed to help/drag him back to bed.

Reported symptoms of severe chest pain, breathlessness and confusion with a bleeding head injury. Was told he was high priority and ambulance would be there ASAP. 60 minutes later I called again, reported same symptoms with worse chest pain, and dipping in and out of consciousness. Was told again he was high priority, and was advised against trying to lump him into the car to take him myself. (I was panicking a bit by then)

45 minutes later I called again, pretty frantic, and was told a first responder was on his way. 15 minutes later he turned up and was just taking a ecg reading, and telling my husband he was having a heart attack and he would be going to hospital, when my husbands heart stopped beating and he stopped breathing. The ambulance had just turned up and was parking in the drive. The first responder told me to go and get them to just come in now with their heart kit. He was doing CPR. Ambulance crew came in, dragged him off the bed and set up the defibrillator and stuck an oxygen thing down his throat. He was shocked twice, and his heart started, and he was trying to breathe on his own.

I was told to get some stuff ready for the hospital, so I chucked some essentials in a carrier bag, put down dog food and extra water and grabbed my purse and phone, and off we went. I was told he might arrest again in the ambulance and we would have to stop and do CPR again, and that he was far from out of the woods. Luckily we made to hospital and the cardiac team had assembled and he went straight in for an angiogram. Ended up with 3 stents. I count each day as a bonus. The NHS saved his life, but it was too close for comfort.

So I didn't call 999 for cardiac arrest, but for very clear symptoms of a heart attack, head injury, and concussion in a 75 year old man who had reported chest pain earlier that day to his GP.

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Chest pain is a category 2 call. Ideally response should be within 18mins BUT this wholey depends on where you are in comparison to the nearest available resource and pressure level that day.

im glad he had a good outcome, but yes agree a very close call !

K9medic2 · 29/12/2023 13:26

Funny thing about %, they help us prioritise our actions and expenditure. But once we have other items / skills sorted does low % mean we should forget that risk?

I do have AEDs in my house (2 working models and several training ones) but that is how I make my living. And yes, I have been asked to help a neighbour before the trust ambulance arrived.

Can we rely on a trust ambulance arriving within minuets? No, we would not be prepares if we believed everything worked as intended. Rural, weather, time of day etc are all factors to be considered.

Yes AEDs that a member of the public has access to can be used safely with little or no training. However, training is never wasted. CPR buys time until further help arrives, but the chances of survival do increase if the patent needs an AED and one is used in a timely fashion.

AEDs are like cars, there is a lot of difference between a Corsa and a Bentley. For my AED batteries are £200 and last 5 years, pads are £30 and if I remember correctly and last 3 years (then they go in my training box. So yes running costs must be factored in.

I would not advice a £1000 AED in this case, yes their worth it but do you need all those bells & whistles?

Second hand refurbished AEDs are fine, but the running costs can be more as often the battery's harder to come by.

Worth serious consideration is the CELL AED. Its new (ish) and by no means perfect. It is a very basic machine (I Believe it only delivers 50j rather than the variable levels other machines deliver) and it must be replaced after use. On the pro side its very small and light weight, about £300 new (an optional monthly subscription of £15 (ish) and they replace the machine when needed).

But I would also state that software beats hardware everyday. Attend a good class for CPR & AED before buying an AED.

I have no conflict of interest on this, I do not sell AEDs and none of the companies I work fore do either. I do however teach first aid and work for private medical companies covering events and night clubs for a living.

But I know money is tight these days, so if anyone is in the Northeast (I live north of Newcastle) and can not afford a first aid course, I am more than happy to take you through CPR & let you get hands on with my AEDs free of charge.

Nellieinthebarn · 29/12/2023 13:48

Bluelightbaby · 29/12/2023 13:23

Chest pain is a category 2 call. Ideally response should be within 18mins BUT this wholey depends on where you are in comparison to the nearest available resource and pressure level that day.

im glad he had a good outcome, but yes agree a very close call !

Show quote history

Don't get me wrong I in no way blame the Ambulance Service, the hospital or the NHS in general for the long wait for an ambulance. I am, and will always remain, grateful to them all.

There is blame to be apportioned, but its not the coalface services that are at fault.

Original poster

OhIlovetosew · 29/12/2023 13:48