Ummm... is it always that bad???

[legallyblond]

Perhaps this is going to be insensitive, but it has got me really scared!!

I have been reading the other thread on here about the midwife shrieking over awful, infected epistiostomy that is not healing and the husband is inspecting the mucus coming out of the wife's open wound etc etc.

What!!!!????

I am 28 weeks pregnant. I may be totally and utterly naive (and its too late now anyway, this baby is coming out somehow! ), but is that normal after giving birth?

1. Is that level of damage normal/to be expected? I had anticipated a cut or a tear if unlucky, but vagina to rectum cut not stiched up properly and now terribly infected... How common is this? Honestly. No-one tells you this!

1. Are husbands normally this involved during and after the birth? Do they have to be? Can't the midwife or nurse or whoever is cleaning up the mess [gulp] see me in private??? Will I need DH's help to go to the loo???!!! [double gulp] Does he have to inspect my wounds etc...?

Obviously I want the lady's husband in the other post to get plenty of support and its fine for him to post. But in all seriousness, my heart is pounding in terror after reading it all.....

And I assume there is nothing anyone can do to determine whether its going to happen like that with that kind of damage, or prevent damage, right? Or is there?

Wow, the thread has been moved almost instantaneously to Childbirth, where I hope the OP can continue to get good advice and comfort for himself and his poor sore partner.

Phew, and thanks Mumsnet moderators.

legallyblond I agree, DH and I have a very close relationship, but we're not even "toilet door open" people so the thought of him firstly having to help me go to the loo, examining wounds etc, and secondly posting about it on the internet would just fill me with abject horror.

I know we're all supposed to be open these days, but we are both quite private people when it comes to bodily functions!

DH and I have chatted and I have said that I am happy for him to be in the room when I have internal examinations, but it's up to him and I won't hold anything against him if he wants to step out at any stage.

Honestly in a million years I cannot imagine him scopping poo from the bath for me. I would prefer to deal with the pain, than the humiliation.

Personally I feel that if the poster's poor wife needs this level of care - ie can't go to the loo on her own and needs wound care, then she should be in hospital.

1. (a) They don't normally do episiotomies now. The only circumstance in which you'd be virtually certain to have an episiotomy would be if you need a forceps delivery, which you probably won't. Even if you do, it would be very unusual to be that bad.
2. (b) Tears are classified into

- 1st-degree tears (where the fourchette and vaginal mucosa are damaged and the underlying muscles are exposed, but not torn). - 2nd-degree tears (where the posterior vaginal walls and perennial muscles are torn, but the anal sphincter is intact). - 3rd-degree tears (where the anal sphincter is torn, but the rectal mucosa is intact). - 4th-degree tears (where the anal canal is opened, and the tear may spread to the rectum). The initial damage described from the episiotomy in that thread was roughly equivalent to a 4th-degree tear. 3rd-degree tears are uncommon and 4th-degree tears very uncommon (IIRC around 4% of vaginal births result in either a 3rd- or 4th-degree tear, with the vast majority of those being 3rd-degree).

1. No, the poster's wife had a very unusual degree of damage and a very unusual degree of lack of healing. Under those circumstances she's going to need physical help from her DH as you would after any significant injury.

I had a c-section with DS and a 2nd-degree tear with DD; I don't think my husband ever "inspected" the wounds before they were nicely healed and scarred up, and I certainly didn't need help to go to the loo. The midwives checked the c-section incision regularly until it was clearly healing up nicely and they offered to inspect the tear to see how that was doing, although I felt happy enough with its progress so didn't take them up on the offer.

I think there have been a couple of things going on with the other thread.

Firstly, the OP is struggling to get full answers from the MWs etc, precisely because it is such an uncommon situation.

Secondly, he is choosing to get involved to the extent that he has. Your DPs will not be forced in anyway to get involved during or after the birth with your undercarriages - that is up to you primarily and also what they want too.

I am assuming that the wife on the other thread is asking for her husband to get involved. Perhaps she is very worried about keeping herslf clean, and feels she needs someone to check.

The only person who looked at my stitches once I left hospital was my (lovely) male community MW - which was odd but necessary. I managed to care for myself, and used DP to look after the baby so I could take my time when I felt I needed to.

God, no, that's entirely extreme; and there's a reason why a lot of us on that thread are telling him to back the hell off from his poor wife, too.

I tore a bit, and had a small episiotomy (because the cord was around her neck and we needed her out fast, I gather) and had some stitches, but there was no wound care necessary at all, I don't think; showered as usual, was just a bit gentle around the area for a while, let it air dry when possible, wore a maternity pad for the lochia, that was it. My husband didn't get involved at all - there was nothing to get involved in.

I showered an hour after giving birth, and the MW helped me into the shower (I think? Maybe she didn't even do that) but apart from that I was fine on my own. Never needed help going to the loo.

My husband and I aren't toilet-door-open people either, but during the actual birth he did get involved more than he expected to; we'd talked about him staying 'head end' if he wanted to, but in the end it was too exciting to watch the baby crown - it's where all the action is at that point, he wasn't going to stay out of it!

He was not involved in any sort of poo-related actitivities, though. I think there was a bit, and the doctor took care of that, but it just wasn't an issue. I never felt as if I'd lost my privacy or my dignity throughout any of the birth or recovery.

Short answer: even if you are incredibly unlucky and have a lot of damage, it will heal, it will be fine, and you will NOT need your husband all up in your ladybusiness if you don't want to.

Guys - think of it like someone who's had an awful car crash. It wouldn't stop you driving. Yes, you know some people crash, but the odds are you won't, and even if you do it will only be a prang.

As far as being uncomfortable about your DH/P's being involved - that guy is more involved than I would like in his wife's position, and I'm starting to get a bit about the way he dodges suggestions she might like to come on here herself - but in general terms...

... childbirth does bring you closer together in a really good way. You really do feel like one person, especially around the whole birth - because you're going through that intense experience together. Seeing your bits and all that needs to be seen through that prism. But in general terms, you adjourn to your bedroom for your midwife to have a gander at how you're healing.

Of course, then your baby is three weeks old and screaming and you're back to snapping at each other again!

Thank god you posted OP, I crapped myself after reading just a little bit of that post. Am 41 weeks and can't stop thinking of the part where he said the baby's head had large cuts from the forceps, really disturbing.

i have 4 dc , ds1 was 8,3 no tears no stiches nothing did not even do any massage that hey recommend , ds2 was 10,11 same one tiny scrape

DD and Ds3 were c sections , dd yes was tough emtionally and phyiscally but was emergency c section totally unexpected given my previous history and she was in special care .Ds3 well painkiller wise all needed was paracetmol went home in 36 hrs ,Job done

So please dont be scared

I'm 39 weeks pregnant, having already had one baby, and that thread freaked the hell out of me! So you're not alone.

I did have a little tear the first time round but it really was totally fine - two stitches which dissolved on their own, never had a problem with healing or infection or anything. Just sat down very carefully for a week or so, which I'm sure I would have done anyway!

Good luck with the rest of your pregnancy and birth.

I haven't read the thread that you're talking about, but it does sound like the lady involved was having an unusually bad time.

I had an awful experience with my first birth - forceps delivery, a large episiotomy, which then burst open and got badly infected, so I had an open wound for about a month. However, I was one of several friends to give birth around the same time, and the only one to have any problems - and my second birth was absolutely fine. As regards the dh, mine is quite squeamish, but coped fine with watching a rather brutal birth, and was a great support afterwards.

One thing I've picked up from that other thread (which is much better placed in Childbirth - ty mods!) is that DH must realise that yelling at medical professionals when they're doing their best to look after me is the opposite of helpful! I think he'd think that was obvious though.

The guy in that thread seems to have big guilt issues because he thinks it's his fault for distracting the doctor when she was sewing and he's probably right IMO.

I asked my MW about episotomies and she said they were increasingly rare and only done in 6% of cases in this area.

Thank you, thank you everyone! This is very reassuring. I feared I would be the only person who was a bit un-nerved by aspects of the other thread (not just the extent of the poor woman's wounds, more about the whole thing with the husband's involvment). I'm glad I am not! Well done for getting it moved!

I will go buy Ina May Gaskin I think. It sounds like the advice my Mum always gives me. She often says that our bodies are made to do this - this is what we are built for. Pain? Heck yes. But a bad experience to "avoid"? No.

Seriously though, your answers have all really, really helped.

No!!!!! I have not ever heard one that extreme

IF you do get cut come and here and get some advice

I wish I had, would have (a) calmed me down and (b) made me lie down and rest (c) next time I AM HAVNING STRONG PAINKILLERS. honestly I was on morphine when I was pregnant but for some reason I did not take drugs for my poor poor fanny

my DP did not look, cant say I blame him

Quite, my mother (a nurse) has a very low pain threshold and even she said that it wasn't 'that' bad. Very painful, yes...but no screaming apparently, and I was 10lbs plus!!

I have tried to listen to hypnobirthing type tapes, but I just can't relax enough. I have remembered the breathing techniques etc and am just going to try to stay as calm as possible and make sure DH does!

Well, I think you firstbirthers should be reassured by the thought that some of us who did have tears and episiotomies and infected stitches also went on to have subsequent children- so clearly not traumatised for life. btw I had an episiotomy because dd's head was stuck and I asked for it.

I had an episiotomy and about 10 stitches with dc1. Neither me nor dh ever looked at them as we didn't feel the need. The mw came round and discreetly peeped at them to check they were healing ok. No stitches with dc2 or dc3. the worst thing dh has had to do is clean the bath after my post homebirth dip, but that wasn't that bad. And i did send him out to buy breast pads too...