Anybody ignoring the cheese guidelines?

[miamix]

Anybody? Obviously not to the point where you're gorging on stilton daily, but anybody had the odd sliver of blue cheese?

I am obviously going to show my ignorance here, but a previous post says 'Pasteurisation isn't the issue.' Then what is? Also, what is the deal with cold meats? I've not had any but can I have ham? Or is it all prepacked meats?

Sorry to be so thick!

summerfruits - here is some info from the FDA that may help towards answering your questions:

www.eatwell.gov.uk/asksam/agesandstages/pregnancy/#A219900 - explaining the cheese risk

www.eatwell.gov.uk/asksam/agesandstages/pregnancy/#A219904 - explaining that you may wish to cut out cold meats, although it isn't in the guidelines

IMO one reason many people believe they have never met anyone who has had listeriosis is that it is commonly asymptomatic.

More info here

A glass or two of wine here and there isn't going to hurt anyone, but the consequences of contracting listeriosis in pregnancy are often catasptrophic: 50% of fetuses infected will die according to the link above.

notjust fair enough.

TBH I am probably a little paranoid - I ate blue cheese and brie throughout my first two pregnancies, believing that I had never had food poisoning and that the risk to the baby even if I did was minimal.

My DC3 was stillborn (due to a heart defect) and I have a lot to do with Sands. sadly I now know the realities of getting listeria whilst pregnant.

I have followed the rules depending on the effects on the baby.

Salmonella should be a tiny risk given vaccinated hens and shouldn't be harmful for the baby, although I'm perhaps more susceptible to it. I have enjoyed soft boiled eggs and have licked the spoon of cake mix when baking with a clear conscience.

However, listeria can kill the baby so I have been really careful about avoiding blue/soft cheese. I am having SO many thoughts about brie but agree with lukewarmcupoftea that it is just for a few months. Those guidelines are not written to limit people just for the sake of it but to advise women appropriately to reduce the numbers of sick mothers and babies.

I've followed the food rules on the Food standards agency so haven't eaten the affected cheeses. However I decided to limit the restrictions to what they said as I kept findingr more all over the place which taken togethee would have left me with little to eat.

summerfruits - miamix's link explains it a bit, but basically pasteurisation kills listeria in the milk, but then it can be reintroduced during the cheese making process.

If that happens, soft cheeses are a very good breeding ground.

I'm in two minds about it really - I think the risks of listeria are overstated (as with many things, like alcohol) but the effects if you do get it are very severe. Personally I did avoid soft cheeses in the main - I cooked them when the craving got out of hand.

I don't blame people for making up their own minds, but I'd rather people understood the issue before making a decision. Too many people think that pasteurised cheeses are officially ok - in fact that's not the case.

I have had 2 soft ice creams from beach huts, one early on in pregnancy and one last week I didn't realise I had done something wrong

I'm avoiding blue and soft cheese and pate (and I suppose technically I'm avoiding Mr Whippy ice cream, but I wouldn't eat that when not pregnant) because the consequences of listeriosis are so potentially horrible, but wouldn't be at all critical of someone who made a different choice. As my (very sensible) GP said, listeria is so rare that you're more likely to be in a car crash, but no-one would say you were irresponsible for getting into a car. And I am eating everything else and having the odd glass of wine - had a blood test for toxoplasmosis pre-pregnancy and I'm immune, and I'm not worrying about salmonella as in the unlikely event that I get it it's not going to hurt the baby, just make me ill.

Agree with Axis of Evil that you could drive yourself completely mad if you tried to avoid everything that some authority or other suggests is bad for you. One or two of the pregnancy books I looked at when I first got pregnant seemed to be suggesting that you lived on boiled potatoes and not much else, which has to be worse for you than the risks of food poisoning!

My SIL works for a food testing lab and she was shocked to find how many cheeses they test carried listeria. She had her children years ago, but said she would definitely follow the cheese rule now, with the knowledge she has now.

ah well Im 32 weeks now and although I have been off blue cheese since January, no one told me about the 'no cheese at all' rule. If this is the case why do NHS guidelines not mention it? In fact MW told me cheese good for me (cant remember why - calcium maybe?) to the point that dh has taken it on board and tried to feed me the odd bit of pasturised hard cheese. Living dangerously... seriously, I know that the people posting dire warnings have your best interests at heart, the sad fact is that the guidelines are there for a reason and it is becuase there are some things that MAY harm your baby. If you try and control absolutely everything you may go mad... or at least find that you dont have time to relax and enjoy your pregnancy.

Hard cheese is considered okay as there's far less chance of it having listeria.

HelenaCC - there is no 'no cheese at all' rule.

Rather - there is a 'not all pasteurised cheeses are safe' rule.

All people are saying is that just because some soft cheeses are pasteurised, it doesn't mean they're safe to eat, as they're an ideal breeding ground for listeria.

Pasteurised hard cheeses, such as cheddar, etc, are fine.

It's the rind that's the problem with Brie etc, makes no difference whether it's pasteurised or not.

I strongly suspect that the risks of eating 'banned cheese' in preganancy are actually considerably LOWER than the risks of getting in your car and driving to the shop to buy something to eat for yourself that's not on the banned list.

Toopracgmatic. You're right- they are.

However, if you define risk as "magnitude of potential upside x probability" vs "magnitude of downside vs probability" then I can sort of see why women choose to continue to drive but not to eat certai foods.

However, this does also tend to result in "erring on the side of caution" by the DoH as they dont really have to justify their advice as the downside to women of following it doesnt often go beyond inconvenience.

I dont live in the UK and rules here are more relaxed. Eating out of restaurant bins is not advised but apart from that, most nationalities stick with their staples, be it sushi, cheeses, coffee, or a glass of red.