Feeling utterly desolate and without hope

[LittleRedRobin]

I am 39, and had a MMC and a 'pregnancy of unknown location' (treated as an ectopic) last year. Although I know we are lucky to have managed pregnancy twice, I feel utterly without hope that we will ever have a family of our own - especially given my age - and so low and miserable it's unbelievable.

DH just said to me that my stress and misery isn't going to help our chances of conception - which I know as well - but seem unable to snap myself out of it.

My mindset now about a future pregnancy is BFP followed by a few weeks before things start going wrong, being back in the bloody scan room to be told again its all over, then x months of recovery before being back to square one - except so much older, and being TOLD over and over again that my age is against me by medical people who still do nothing to improve my odds despite my age. When I think about a BFP the first image that comes into mind is that dark scan room.

I keep thinking that if I KNEW there was something wrong I could address it, and if I knew there was nothing wrong I might feel differently. But I have to wait for THREE miscarriages before they even start to consider tests and its breaking me up. I think a third might finish me off, so any help at that point will be too late.

All this made my DH say the other night that he thinks he'd have preferred us to have infertility - because probably by now we'd have had some support or help rather than the nothing we're getting from the NHS. It feels unbearably cruel.

How do others manage to stay positive and optimistic and not STRESS (because stress is bad for conception) when you've had two MC and no answers or tests to set your mind at ease and left feeling like a third is on the horizon?

I'm crying every day and trying not to let DH see how bad it is. Today is especially bad because yet ANOTHER cousin has just announced her pg on Facebook.

Seriously - what chances do we have at our ages (DH is 43). We cannot afford IVF. I feel like I'm losing it. I've name-changed for this because I am ashamed to admit how I seem to be wallowing and posted it in the pregnancy thread in the hope good news stories from women like me here might help me pick mself up.

Oh yes - I was referred to a counsellor. She was a patronising young thing without a CLUE - didn't even know what progesterone was - I could have cheerfully hit over the head with a chair so decided it best if I leave... which I have. It made things so much worse - deeply wish I'd never mentioned my unhappiness to my GP because of where it took me. Not going back there.

Sorry I have no direct experience but wanted to give you my sympathy. Your dh isn't helping much but he's probably deeply upset too and dealing with it by trying to cut off emotionally.

A counsellor could really help, you just need to find a better one - a wise, older woman is best IME. Where are you located?

And btw you're not wallowing. You need to grieve and it's normal to worry, even without your experiences. You need to let all this out, if not to DH then elsewhere. But maybe if you open up to him it will be better than you think? Crying is OK and helps with stress, so let yourself cry.

I had reflexology when TTC and it was very relaxing/de-stressing, so that's something to try too.

MarineIguana thanks for the kind words. I am seeing a reflexologist and also acupuncture and traditional chinese medicine. Both the reflexologist and TCM practitioner have been utterly amazing and I get a real boost when I've seen them. But it's expensive so can't do as much as I would like to.

I am trying damn hard to be positive and do positive things and there are days I feel very up and happy. But I keep hitting this brick wall and slumping.

I just can't go down the NHS counselling route again. I felt very much as if my normal and understandable fears (well, I think it's understandbale to be distressed after two MCs) were being ramped-up into some kind of deep clinical condition rooted in myself by someone who hadn't a clue.

I hated it: found myself thinking in the sessions "How the hell did I get into this mess?!?". I don't lie to myself: I know I am not 'sick' so won't have anyone trying to persuade me week after week that I am - which really got me down. It took me weeks to pluck up the courage to leave, which was stressful in itself, but now its done I actually feel like a load lifted off my shoulders.

So - although I was hopeful it would help first time around, I am deeply unkeen to get myself stuck in that rut again. There's no choice with the NHS.

I feel for you. You could try putting this in conception for more advice or experiences.

I mean in the conception topic.

She sounds like a totally crap counsellor. You need to just be able to go over and process your feelings, it isn't about being ill or having a condition. I've had counselling several times (though for completely different issues) and never encountered that attitude. Could you see a private one even just as a one-off, just to offload and help you get a new perspective? Or is there a family member or friend you could talk to?

I agree about the counsellor being crap. And it's absolutely normal for you to grieve, and grieving is a process that takes time, which understandably feels against you right now. 39 is not old and you have concieved before, you can do so again. I was despairing but I have recently got pregnant after 2 years trying and I am 39, my husband is 42. Going on a *low carb diet helped me a lot, it is the only explanation I can think of as everything else remained constant whilst TTC. It stabilised my moods, hormones and regularised my ovulation.

*basically as natural as possible diet -masses of veg, quality protein ie. fresh eggs, cheese, grass-fed meat, with seeds, nuts, berries, no sugar, minimal booze, no refined carbs. I mention it because it won't do any harm and might help, it is something practical you can do.

The conception forum is full of good advice and so is the miscarriage one. Please be gentle with yourself and allow yuorself to grieve but don't despair completely. 39 is not the end of the road.

x

my friend had a baby last week. She has 2 mc before this one. She is 41. Please dont give up.
A friend of a friend is due any day now, after 3 mc. She's late 30s.

I dont know if you've been told this by your midwife, but I was told that I really had no higher risk of a miscarriage, despite having had 2 in a row.
Also, I was told just to start trying straightaway, if I was mentally ready to - were you told you should wait for a few months?

There is hope. I'm 42 and 13+4 after several mc... it sounds awful but I can't tell you exactly how many - 4 that the hospital had involvement with, but also several early ones from 4 - 5 weeks.

The good news is - you got pregnant. You are not infertile and now you have to do everything you can to increase your chances.

It is likely you mc were the result of fatal chromosome problems (this is the case even in younger women, and you are at greater risk as you are a little older). There are things you can do.

As PP said, good quality, home cooked food - more nutrition and less crap in it will help your hormones.

Also, large dose, 5mg folic acid a day reduces mc rate (by reducing something called non-disjunction, where the chromosomes don't pull apart proberly in the first cell divisions in the embryo).
I was on this for 6 months while ttc this baby, and am still on it now - it's available over the counter, but it can also be prescribed - ask to see a consultant, to discuss this. It can't prevent all problems, but it can increase the chances in your favour.

In addition to high dose folic acid, my consultant also told me to take a daily "mini asprin" - the 80mg ones, NOT the normal ones, as soon as I got a BFP, which I did, and am still on it now, as this can help the placenta implant, and function better, as many mc are caused by problems with the placenta not working, sometimes because of antibodies we make against the pregnancy.

Talk to someone about these issues, check there's not a reason why you can't take these drugs - they may really help. Good luck

Hi there, couldnt not reply as we sound so similar.

I am 40 this year and had my 5th mc in December just gone.

Same as you, when i get a bfp i just think, here we go again and dont allow myself to think any happy thoughts. I feel robbed, completely mugged of that privilidge that every other normal woman who gets a bfp is allowed to feel and dream.

I dont ever feel "positive" as you put it, i just know that it will happen for me some time soon. Its a gut feeling.

I have had tests, all normal, no clotting/chromosomal/ etc type issues were found.
I tend to have the same type of mc, well, at least 3 out of the 5 were blighted ovum, 2 had heart beats and were babies.

I am near to giving up tbh.

I have asked dh for 3 months off trying. to breath, to have normality, to have a time of not thinking about ttc constantly.

Its been what i have needed, i have never once thought "maybe this month", it has been a weight lifted.

I aim to start to try again in a couple of months, full on, best shot. Then that will be the end of it, no more.
Just keep at it, keep thinking that you can and will do it.....good luck and all the best, its so very difficult i know x

LittleRedRobin - I'm so sorry you are going through this.

There are some wonderful people on here who will always listen, even if they are unable to offer practical advice. It can sometimes feel like you are the only one experiencing these feelings. You aren't - sometimes other people can be a greater comfort than the so called professional counsellors. Stay strong

Please don't give up and try to stay positive. I am a huge believer in what is mean't to be will be which sounds bloody cheesy and corny but it is something I steadfastly stick to. I am 40, had my first miscarriage when I was 30 at 12 weeks. Had my daughter perfectly at 33 then had 2 miscarriages and then devastatingly a still birth 2 years ago. Hubby and I tried for 2 years and whereas before I had allways fallen pregnant this time I seemed to have fertility issues - arrgghh. Anyway I gave up trying, resigned myself to the fact that we are going to have only one, I went into my 40th birthday celebrations with gusto and in my mind put all of my baby making thirties behind me. My birthday week coincided with my son's birthday but I smiled up at him in heaven, told him I loved him and consciously moved on with my new life. 2 weeks after my birthday - BFP! Yes I am nervous - I have already had a scan where heartbeat couldn't be found but you know what....this time I just chilled out - I can't change anything and I listen to my mantra what will be, will be. Second scan a week later there was a heartbeat and I am patiently waiting for things to unfold and hopefully get to the end of the road with a baby in my arms! Good luck and maybe take a leaf out of meattattypie's book and take some time out - it might help? Interestingly I was having acupuncture for something else the both times I have fallen pregnant in the last couple of years - something to do with it??

Hi Robin - I just read your post and I want so badly to give you an answer, just as bad as I wanted to give myself one, after I had 4 mc's! I don't even know how I made it through those 2 years. People tell you to try and stay positive, to go on with your life and things...but how do you do that when all you want is a baby? How do you move on when you don't want to?

All I can say is that soon the answer will come to you, somehow, and in some way that you didn't expect. Maybe it will come in the form of a baby in your belly, or maybe it will come from somewhere else. Whatever the case, it will come, and you'll be happy again, because you can't be sad forever, right? Sorry, I doubt this helped but I tried.

Don't give up hope! I got pregnant at 41 with my little boy, and I am at 43 pregnant again! Also, don't stress too much about being stressed! For me personally, I was/am going through some very stressful personal circumstances, but that doesn't seem to have affected my ability to conceive.
Much love x

I so sorry and give you my sympathy. I've only had one MC and it was heartbreaking but I know the feeling of waiting to see when it's all going to go wrong.

I have mixed feelings about this myself but there's a preconceptual care website here that statistically has helped many more couples than IVF. It's basically about nutrition and the optimal diet for preconception. Some people are more vulnerable to deficiencies than others. The downside is that this kind of approach/advice might not be useful to you (i.e. you're already eating healthily) and I think it can make you feel responsible for disappointing outcomes. However, it's free, it doesn't involve drs, medication, and it can't hurt to try. Maybe see what you think. HTH.

Its crap isn't it? After DD1 I had 2 mcs before having DD2. I never enjoyed DD2's pregnancy because as you say you spend the whole time waiting for things to go wrong. In a horrible way you almost wish things would go wrong and go wrong quickly so that you can finally get answers to why previous pregnancies didn't work out.

For me it was a case of taking one day at a time and eventually coming to realise that there weren't any answers to why I'd had 2 mcs.

There are some wonderful people on the preg after mc thread, and ttc after mc - they really helped me.

wishing you all the best xx

You are so not wallowing but I think we all know exactly where you are coming from and it is a heartrending place to be.

Has your practice got several coucellors, might be worth asking?

dh and I are both 42, very blessed with a ds who is 8 and then 5mc. I have been profoundly altered, hesitate to write damaged and do struggle emotionally.
It is not helped that mc is such a taboo and hidden subject and somehow we never seem to get the space and time to grieve the loss of all those hopes and dreams and love.

I could be 7+6 weeks pregnant now or I could be about to have my 6mc but I am trying so hard to be positive and look forward but it is not at all easy.

When I finally had my mc tests they all came back fine which was hard to cope with as I had nothing to put right. As others have said concentrating on being healthy is always good, I became a bit of a gym bunny which has helped my mental health a lot might also be worth a thought?

Pop in to emmsys weebling thread on conception. We have all had mcs and have all developed ways of coping and there is a mass of support that I could never have survived without.
Good luck.

Loubilou09 I couldn't read your post and not say anything, you sound really inspirational and I wish I'd been as strong as you sound in the past. You sound like an amazing woman and I wish you all the best in your pregnancy.

I'm currently 5+5 after 6 previous miscarriages (no reasons found so far) but I have 3 healthy children, I feel very lucky to have them.

Littleredrobin I really wish you all the best and hope you do have a healthy pregnancy and baby one day soon.

Thank you all so much for the sensitivity and compassion in your replies. Had me in tears actually. It is 'good' to know that despite telling myself all day to 'snap out of it', that being stuck in this rut is not abnormal. I am feeling better this evening but was low this morning again. I guess it's a rollercoaster.

I read something recently that really made me see things in a different light.... Imagine going to your GP and saying 'I have a lump in my breast' and being told to 'come back when you find three and we'll check you out then'. Incredible really. A friend said 'but cancer can kill you', to which I said, 'well, if there is something wrong or something I am not doing right, the MCs are killing my babies'.

I think this is the crux of my misery and fury and why I keep getting in a spiral. I feel such fury at the thought that IF there is something preventable happening, that I may just have had two unnecessary MCs by the time I get checked.

Anyway ....

Very good to hear the good news stuff too and things going well for others - that there might be a light at the end of all this.

I have today made an appointment to see a nutritionist but have been trying to be healthy. I cut out caffiene and booze a while ago (I wish I could drink!), and I've taken up regular exercise - at least, until I injured myself and temporarily have to stop.

I find myself clutching at the practical advice like the link from vitapulchra and the supplement advice from oldmum42. If nothing else, that sort of thing makes me feel as if I have control over something I can't control ... which helps.

However, I am so worried I might take too much of something that causes harm. (Discovered to my horror that the Ibuprofen I've been swallowing for my inflamed muscle can impact on ovulation.... aaaaargh.)

I am getting zero - ZERO - advice about supplements.

After my first MC I asked my GP and the EPU staff if I should take a tonic to help me recover and all said no (my friend in another country was insistent I needed something to give me a boost as she had after her MC and was furious when everyone said 'do nothing').

After the 2nd MC I asked my GP if there were supplements I should take that would help in a next PG and she gave me a card about the importance of 400mcg of folic acid (DUH!!) and said 'nothing else, you'll get what you need from your diet'.

I don't (and probably won't) have a consultant until I've had a 3rd MC and even then I'm not expecting much help. I've never met my midwife at all despite two pregnancies and wouldn't know how to contact her in any circumstance.

So I think a lot of my misery is because I am groping around knowing that there are things others do, but not fully sure if I should be doing it in my case, and if I do, how much etc etc - and then getting really angry with the NHS for not being more considerate and supportive and not knowing where else to turn. Vicious circle.

Is it safe to take supplements? I'm hoping this is something the nutritionist will help with.

Thank you for the kindess.

Do you know what, if you want a drink I would have one, once in a while. I drank while TTC and just refrained during the two-week-wait, plus limited it to a handful of small glasses of wine a week and no more than two in one evening. But if you enjoy drinking in moderation, which I do, and get that "aaaah unwinding with a glass of wine" feeling, I'm pretty sure the occasional drink will be very good for your stress levels and not a problem for TTC (though I don't claim to be an expert... but you could check and see if there are any stats about it). Drinking heavily for long periods is bad for fertility but I'm not sure the odd glass is.