VERY worried: would you have the swine flu vaccine at very start of first trimester?

[JustShaggy]

I went along for a H1N1 vaccine thinking all was well and safe and I was a 'priority group'. Only just, I'm not even 5 weeks yet.

The nurse was VERY unhappy about giving it to me. Said she'd only been giving it to people in 2nd and 3rd trimesters, and she had no idea, because there was no data, on what impact this could have on critical development phase of first trimester.

She spoke to a doctor who told her government guidelines were all pregnant women and she wasn't following government guidelines in expressing her concerns to me.

That kind of response didn't exactly fill me with confidence either!

We are now very worried and confused, and don't know if I get sick in first trimester if I will be OK and if it would be better for me to wait....... can't stand the idea of doing serious damage to my baby....

Thing is, I'm on a long haul flight just before Christmas and worried about re-cycled air blah blah etc

What do I do....? What would you do?

I am currently 10 weeks pregnant and would like to wait until at least the second if not third trimester before I receive the vaccine. I saw the doctor recently for my DD and mentioned about having the vaccine. I was told that the guidelines were to vaccinate in the third trimester as this was when swine flu complications are most likely. I work in a school with confirmed child and staff cases.

I'm in my first trimester and like bluefootedpenguin am waiting until at least second trimester before having it. I looked at the guidelines when I was offered it, and its true that they are not specifying when in pregnancy you should have it. The main risk of having swine flu early in pregnancy is getting a high temperature. Afaik, the risks that have led to pregnancy deaths are when the lung capacity is compromised, i.e. later in pregnancy.

It's all about weighing up risks. I found the massive thread about having the vaccine on here really useful in coming to my decision.

This is a difficult one... and you are going to get wildly different opinions on here... some of which might be more or less helpful.

It is good to understand why swine flu is particularly dangerous for pregnant women (hoping I am not reiterating what you already know)... and this is partly because (as someone else posted on another thread I am sure much more clearly than me) that you have a weakened immune system and that there is also a reduced enzyme in the lungs in pregnancy which you need to fight infection (and specifically swine flu) and also the lungs get more and more constricted as your pregnancy develops.

I suspect that this means that if you had swine flu in the first trimester you would probably be fine (i.e. survive), just feel dreadful... although there are questions about whether it is worse for a baby's development to suffer high temperatures etc. than the possible effects of the jab.

One also needs to remember that we don't know if there are effects from the jab... but we do know that swine flu with complications can be very serious.

Also, that at least Celvapan is almost the same as the seasonal flu jab which millions of American women have during pregnancy and have done for years with no apparent ill effects.

My personal advice to you would be to try and get Celvepan, the first dose, as soon as possible so that you would have pretty high immunity (think it is in the 90's per cent after one dose) for your trip... and get the second dose when you get back (unless you are going in more than three weeks in which case you could get both done).

.... but this decision is very personal indeed.

Best of luck with your choice.

JustShaggy,
I had the vaccine last week because I am in my third trimester. From what I understand this is when pregnant women are most at risk of difficulties with flu because their lungs are so squashed up. I also thought it was important because I will be giving birth in the depths of winter when flu rates are usually highest and because baby will pick up some antibodies too.
I think if I was in my first trimester, I may not have had it. As the nurse said, it is a crucial development phase, when we are told to avoid even paracetamol etc.., but which seems to be ok later on in pregnancy. But, it's also important to remember that the flu itself in pregnancy has the potential to be detrimental to baby's development, so this needs to be weighed up against hypothetical risks from the vaccine. All pregnant women are offered the seasonal flu vaccine in the US and have been for a few years (I think we should have it here too) - I don't believe this is restricted to 2nd & 3rd trimesters.
There is a swine flu thread under the health section in 'talk' which is may be helpful to you.

I'm afraid celvapan is not an option for me because I won't be around to get the second dose. I am not an anti-vaccine person or even over cautious.... and I was fully prepared to have the jab assuming everything was totally safe. But have been totally thrown by the nurses reaction. There is no way, if there was the smallest risk, that I could expose the child to developmental issues. Also, I have had a MC before, so am worried about that potentially happening as well if I have the vaccine.

I am utterly livid about all this, because we notified our practice that we were TTC and we even told them when we would be away and asked if I could have it in advance so I and child could be protected on the flight and while abroad (where I don't even know if they have the anti virals...). I HAVE to go away - made that clear too.

But they said no - 'rules are rules' and I wasn't priority until I was pregnant. No one told me NOT to TTC because I was travelling or because the jab might not be safe.

And now I am PG, I've had this thrown back at me.

Makes me wild with anger --- EXACTLY what I was trying to avoid.

Now I'm told 'its my choice' - what would that be? Child with a potential neurological illness or serious illness from swine flu? Excellent medical care system we have.

... but in some countries Celvapan is only being given as one dose (France and Ireland.. although now the latter is giving 2 doses to some at risk groups), so you would have very high immunity, just not as high as Pandemrix, so it still is a choice and possibly a good one (well I thought it was for me anyway).

I am getting the second dose in a different country... and as it has to be at least 3 weeks after the first so presumably it can be given even later (I am having my second dose at 6 weeks and was told this is fine).

Also, I am working in various countries at the moment (have had my antenatal care in 3 different countries which has been interesting!) and all the different health systems have had different responses to the risk of flu/what jab/what dose/who is high risk/who gets it when etc... so it isn't just the NHS, it is everywhere... just because nobody actually knows what the risk of catching it is as it keeps changing (and will do with more vaccinations too as less people can spread it, it could still mutate too) and of course there really isn't much research into drugs on pregnant women because of the risks....

Many of us have been terribly confused by the decision about what to do, it is such a personal decision and the risks are just not clear, many of us have had sleepless nights worrying, I am sure...

I am worried about this too especially after 7 mc's. I went to see my doctor yesterday and he explained it would be better for me to have it and there have been no risks reported. Didn't fill me with confidence tbh!

I am still unsure

I had it at 7 weeks pregnant (I'm 12 now). I have no regrets and am confident that it won't affect my baby at all (I wouldn't have had it otherwise).

Of course I have nothing to base that on but my own instincts, and I hope that I am right!

The problem with all this is that - like so many things - there is rumour and misinformtion, or lack of information, which makes people question the guidelines. I'm not saying there is anything wrong with asking questions or being cautious, just that you have to base your reasoning on something solid (which actually is difficult in this case because there are no stats to back anything up) rather than just "it's never been tested on pregnant women" which is a load of old pony anyway.

Sorry, I'm ranting.

I would say, if you think it's the right thing to do then do it. I did so I did, and now it's done I can stop worrying about it.

My Mum is a nurse and has been giving the swine flu jab to pregnant women although she is not recommending that I have it (I'm 18 weeks).
She would definately not want to administer it to someone in the first trimester.

When I had my swine flu jab a few wks ago (I'm in the third trimester) the nurse said getting just the seasonal flu in the first trimester can give the baby 'problems' like a cleft palate etc.

I'm presuming they can't say whether this would be the case with swine flu, but it's a difficult one, sorry you have to make the decision.

mumcah - what would your mum say about rhe celvapan idea that lucy101 proposed? Would she think one dose of that was ok in first trimester.....?

I have actually seen somewhere on another thread (lost it now) someone posting on MN from another country saying no women in 1st trimester in her country are being given the drug.

I live in America and I had the flu jab while TTC, and got the swine flu jab when I was 6 weeks pregnant. It's a one-dose injection for us, and their priority is getting all pregnant women vaccinated ASAP. I talked to the nurse and my GP about being newly pregnant, and they assured me it was completely safe.

I work on a crowded Uni Campus full of germ-breeding undergrads, and so I was far more worried about getting flu or swine flu than the vaccine doing damage in 1st trimester - but I got no indication from medical people that it was a risk.

It's funny, but I rather suspect different countries have different hangups about what's acceptable in a pregnant woman, and some of that might be cultural. Like, over here people are insistant on NO booze and NO caffeine, and over in the UK friends tell me they've been advised 'oh, one is ok as long as it's not on an empty stomach' - so how are we supposed to know?!

Oh well, if the vaccine causes the LO problems, it's too late I suppose! I didn't feel vile after it (or the flu jab) - but I could be lucky.

AgentZigZag - I'm sorry, I can't believe a nurse said that! Do you not think that if it was the case a LOT more would be made of it??

I was curious and so googled it - actually it appears that having flu while pregnant has been linked to an increase in cases of things like cleft palate, congenital heart disorders, nothing about any link with receiving the seasonal flu vaccine.

blackcurrants - I think you are right about the cultural thing to an extent.

Everytime I read one of these threads I think "shit, have I done the wrong thing?" but no, I am sure it was the right thing to do and I am NOT going to be swayed or paniced by a bunch of heresay and unsupported speculation.

I am 10 weeks, and my MW advised me not to have it until the second trimester

but

this was because I have had previous miscarriages, and I think she knows that if something were to go wrong, then I would always wonder if it was the jab.

Talkbird, I think we might have crossed wires there. I didn't say it was linked to the seasonal flu jab, and meant exactly what you said, that just getting the seasonal/normal flu early on in pregnancy can give your baby an increased risk of having those problems.

What I meant is that if just getting the seasonal flu increases those risks, then would the risks to the baby if you got swine flu be similar?

I was repeating what the nurse said for the OP to consider, and have no idea how swine flu could affect a baby in the first trimester. But that seems to be the difficulty for anyone deciding whether to have the jab at any time in their pregnancy, nobody really has a clue as they can't test it on pregnant women.

It's an awful situation. I trusted 'them' and had the jab, but it wasn't easy.

tallbirduk - I know what you mean - it's so easy to panic about every little thing, but as this is the first I've heard about the swine flu vaccine being a worry in the first trimester I had a bit of a fret.

And then - well, I just have to shrug - it's done, and I'm doing my best for the little spawn, even as it makes me feel like I'm going to throw up - so what can you do? We're all trying to minimize risks, I suppose - so it's about whether you think you're more at risk of getting swine flu before the 2nd trimester starts, or at more risk from the vaccine....
Gah! It's so hard!

Ahh, apologies Agentzigzag - totally misread your post there - did think that it was a bit of a suprising thing for a nurse to have come out with!

I had it at 5 weeks (now 9 weeks) when I went to the docs to tell them I was pg. I asked if it wouldn't be better to wait but the nurse said the advice was to get it ASAP in pregnancy and it would be fine. I travel on the tube every day so am at risk of picking it up there.

Like others have said I have a bit of a panic when I read threads like this, but I figure they wouldn't give it to pregnant women unless they were totally sure it was fine. Plus I really, really don't want swine flu, especially if I could only take paracetamol. I know a few people who have had it and they have all been really poorly with it.

Easily done tallbird