The international randomness of Banned Pregnancy Foods

[roary]

Hi,
I just wanted to ask/rant about the complete randomness of what is on the Thou Shalt Not Eat list in different countries. It is so variable that it strikes me that there is not much evidence behind some of these rules!!

I'm Canadian and have lived in Australia and here, and the rules are completely different. There: any processed meets, incl prosciutto/parma ham: BANNED. My doctor: OK.

I was in Japan and saw literally dozens of pregnant women scarfing up massive quantities of sushi. Canada: Sushi banned!!

My friend who lives in Italy: told not to eat salad, for it is banned!

Also: Soft cheese. Soft cheese is FINE, unpasteurized cheese is not, but soft cheese seems to be banned here because it appears that the med profession think that 'unpasteurized' is a concept too difficult for the preg brain to grasp.

What are some of the 'rules' that you've heard of from different countries, and do you agree that there is something a bit odd about all the differences?

I thought the bagged salad advice was due to concerns about toxoplasmosis...?

Just to clarify: raw fish used for sushi and sashimi served in Japan is not usually frozen (the huge tunas often come in off the boats frozen though).

Japanese woman are advised to eat sushi at reputable places and avoid discounted sushi at the supermarket. The raw fish advice in other parts of the world I think stems partly from raw meat being of higher risk to food-handling illnesses (same goes for the salad advice), and also from the much smaller risk of falling ill from parasitic worms that can be very rarely found in fish.

I definitely think cultural attitudes towards risk have a big impact on advice as well as science. Here in the UK I feel we are extremely risk-adverse, whilst in other countries it is less so.

In fact the risk of listeria poisoning can be just as high if not higher in pasturised soft cheese than in unpasturised soft cheese.

Phili etc obviously fine and not what I was referring to.
I am surprised how many women think that a pasturised brie is safer than an unpasturised brie though.

Roary did your doctor actually tell you that prosciutto etc were ok? That's not the actual accepted advice is it?

I want pate sobs

Bubbaluv, yep - 2 different doctors did. The advice on 'deli meats' seems to vary enormously but apparently dried and salted preserved meats (prosciutto, bresaola, etc) are fine and 'wet' ones (ie regular ham or turkey sliced) are not. It's also not on the FSA website as a food to avoid. But again, in Canada, they'd tell you differently.

I do think that one of the things this reflects is that you can get listeriosis from a great many things and everyone calibrates those risks differently.

Fortunately the thought of all these foods grosses me out completely at the moment, so I am not worried!

The risk from prosciutto crudo is not so much listeriosis (afaik, I'm not an expert) but toxoplasmosis.

It is lumped in with the advice on "raw meat" as it is technically uncooked meat.

NHS advice is to avoid it - see here. FSA doesn't specifically mention parma ham but does advise against uncooked meat.

I am compltely mystified at all those people who are turned off by sushi btw!

I craved sushi while pregnant and did eat it - but only from my v v v reputable local Japanese restaurant, and the lovely Japanese chef came out of the kitchen and personally advised me which fish were particularly suitable/unsuitable for pregnant women.

For some completely inexplicable reason I also craved Kentucky Fried chicken. Now that should be on the restricted list [boak]

I want parma ham and bresola sobs

NOrmally I love sushi, pate, etc etc and want to eat them all the time. While pregnant: bleurghhhh. But that is because I am disgusted by everything except avocados (and a couple of other things). Very depressing but at least I don't miss things!

On parma ham: that clears it up a bit but my understanding is that the drying/salt curing process is meant to kill bacteria? At least that's what the doctor told me (I did want to eat parma ham all the time in my first pregnancy, and did).

That link on listeriosis is interesting. It doesn't mention parma ham or bresaola. Does that mean that if I have immunity to toxoplasmosis I'm OK to eat them?

Toxoplasmosis is not caused by a bacteria but by a parasite, which is quite hardy. It can survive in the soil for several months and withstand sub-zero temperatures and disinfectants like bleach. I think it is quite unlikely that just salting and drying the meat would kill it.

Some info here if you are interested.

The usual recommendation is thorough cooking as it is killed by high temperatures, but I have been told (disclaimer - not an expert!) that it is also killed by 24 hours in a deep freeze, so frozen meat (inc parma ham!) should presumably be safe?

Just did some googling and according to the New Statesman (not quite the cutting edge scientific journal you would hope for - but there you go) genyoowine parma ham should be ok, because of the extremely long and cool preparation period - see this article.

According to the NS article, this is based on research by Perugia University. Mysteriously [cough cough] they found that other types of air dried ham may not be safe. How extremely convenient for the Italian economy!

I got myself tested for Toxo (had immunity) and ate parma through my pregnancies. All the info I got (this year and 2 years ago) was that it was a food to avoid (i'm in the UK) and my sister was told the same in Aus.

My dad bought pate It is in the fridge, and it calling to me. AND I CAN'T EAT IT.

No one mention the possibility of going over due now, okay? Because having to not have pate and goats cheese for up to seven weeks might just send me over the edge...

hopeful Surely they has to be some pate I can eat?? If its hot?? I'll put it on toast?? deperate

Braseola is very thinly sliced rare beef, so I'd imagine it's a no no. I'm guessing though that you can by something also called braseola from deli counters, in which case it would be cured. I like the report from the University of Perugia
Erika as long as it didn't have liver in it, could you make some pate? Just a thought
I know we've mentioned it already, but I will be avoiding rice unless it's freshly cooked by my own (or a loved one's) fair hand. I had hideous food poisoning when pg with ds, having had rice with lunch at the restaurant I worked at. I have absolute confidence in the chefs that made it (and they were amazing, often making me special extra nice stuff and giving me the best bits because I was pg and they enjoyed feeding me and the baby up ) but the rice had been standing around for a while until my shift had finished. Nobody else was ill, even though others ate the same, but I put this down to my being pg. I threw up in the street, and on my doorstep, and all up the stairs to my flat. DS and I were fine but it gave me a scare and the whole thing was just horrible.

I am of course totally wrong about the braseola. The raw stuff is carpaccio. Thankfully I no longer work in the restaurant trade. I'll get my coat...

I didn't know you could be immune to toxoplasmosis. Should have purposely exposed self pre-pregnancy and then gone mad eating Banned Food.