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Pregnancy

Talk about every stage of pregnancy, from early symptoms to preparing for birth.

Rhesus Negative Injections

57 replies

guyshahar · 05/06/2009 08:31

Hi

My wife is rhesus negative, and this is her first pregnancy.

The midwife told us that there was an option to have an injection to prevent any reaction in the case of a mixing of blood between the fetus and my wife, and that this would also help be beneficial if there is a second pregnancy at a later date.

The midwife told us that there were 2 options : to have the injection pre-emptively, or to have it if and when a mix of blood occurs. However, she was unable to explain the advantages of each approach, saying only that in the past most people had the injection if a mix occurred, and now most people have it pre-emptively.

Could anyone explain to us what the consequences of each option would be?

Thank you.

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guyshahar · 05/06/2009 18:00

Hi Mears

Unfortunately, I do not know my blood type, and the midwife and GP both refused to test for it. They say they will only go with the type of the mother because they can never be sure that her husband is actually the father, even if she says he is (nice!!!). So they routinely discount the husband's type.

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guyshahar · 05/06/2009 18:08

Twinklegreen (or anyone who can answer)

You said that you chose to have the jab after birth only. Can you say more about this? Why did you decide to do it that way? Why was the consultant stroppy (I know it's sometimes part of the job description)?

Is there any increased risk as a result of doing it after the birth? (or to put it another way, what is the point of having the 28 week jab if it can be done after birth?)

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christiana · 05/06/2009 18:24

Message withdrawn

paisleyleaf · 05/06/2009 18:31

I'm 'o' rh neg (DH +) and was never offered the pre-emptive anti-d jabs.
Then when DD was born she 's 'o' rh neg too, so They said I wouldn't need anything.

guyshahar · 05/06/2009 19:30

Christina - tried that, but I have been in India recently, and so they won't accept my blood for 6 months....

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christiana · 05/06/2009 19:52

Message withdrawn

twinklegreen · 05/06/2009 19:55

guyshahar I chose to opt out of having the jab in pregnancy for a number of reasons; this is my third child and I've never had and bleeding of any type during my pregnancies so I'm pretty confident that it is unlikely to happen this time either. If I were to have any bleeding or trauma I would automatically get an anti-d shot anyway (even if I had already had the 28wk one). This is my last child and as the anti-bodies are only a problem for subsequent children I don't feel it is as important. I have chosen to have it after birth as I think it is far more likely for there to be mixing of blood during labour and birth, so there is a chance I could produce anti-bodies. Even though it is planned to be my last accidents do happen and I'd rather be on the safe side. I'm sort of hoping that this baby will be -ve so I don't have to have it at all!

The consultant was basically saying that I should either have both or not bother having any. He didn't seem to understand why I wanted to have one and not the other. As I said before when I had my daughter (only 3 years ago)we were only offered one post birth so it can't be that vital to have both.

Anyway, obviously I'm only speaking for myself and I wouldn't claim to be any type of authority on the subject! I'm just getting more single minded and against un-necessary interventions the more pregnancies I go through... god help any midwife who tries to get me to lie down during labour this time, I'm going to be upright dammit!!

winjy · 05/06/2009 20:25

like mears pointed out if you're negative then she wont need the injections...i'm B negative and so is my oartner so our baby will also be negative and there is no need for me to have the injection...only if you are positive

nowwearefour · 05/06/2009 20:29

what wherethewildthingswere said. both mine turned out to be negative and i am glad i didnt risk passing on cjd to me or my children. (and i am someone in favour of immunisations and most medical interventions generally, but just not anti-ds...)

hedgiemum · 05/06/2009 20:37

Twinklegreen, being on my 4th pregnancy, I totally agree with the sentiments expressed in your last sentence! I am so fed up of being patronised, treated like an imbecile and having my body controlled, in so many different aspects of pregnancy and birth.

In my first pregnancy I would have just accepted the anti-D, as no-one told me it was a blood product, it was just referred to as "an injection". DH was a scientist at the time, and felt uncomfortable about it when he knew it wasn't necessary due to him also being neg. But he told me that if I had any doubts about the babies paternity to go to my midwife and get it anyway .

Guyshahar - I really admire you for researching this issue; I'm a HUGE believer in being informed, and so much about the NHS seems to stop us being informed. It leads me to think you are going to be an excellent father, and are already an excellent husband. (Don't let it go to your head though, I'm sure your wife could suggest many improvements ). Go and have your blood type tested privately (cheapest way probably through a private GP in your local area, or ask your GP if you can pay to have it tested at your local surgery.) Its very useful to know when you travel anyway.

snickersnack · 05/06/2009 20:47

I find it incredibly insulting that healthcare professionals won't accept a woman's word about the paternity of her baby. I had anti-d with dd because I didn't know that dh was also rhesus negative. I mentioned it to my MIL after birth, and she said dh was negative (he had a lot of blood transfusions as a child, so she has his blood group engraved on her brain)and therefore it wasn't necessary. When I got pg with ds I was told that because of the chance of ds not being his child, I had to have the injection. I pointed out that I didn't have to have anything, and I wouldn't consent to having an entirely unnecessary blood product injected into me. I got a huge amount of hassle about it. In the end, I had to get dh to go and get his blood group confirmed (which was done on the NHS) before they stopped hassling me, and even then I got a lot of "well, that's ok assuming he is the father".

Now, I appreciate that anti-d is incredibly beneficial in cases where it's needed, and I understand that there are cases where the paternity of the child may be in question. But if the mother has had the risks spelled out and understands them, why the fuss? Who would put their child's health at risk by refusing it when they could just say "fine, give me the jab". If dh hadn't been the father, I'd never have made a fuss about it - just had the jab. He certainly wouldn't have known what was going on.

Rant over.

christiana · 05/06/2009 20:57

Message withdrawn

Pingpong · 05/06/2009 21:01

I had the anti-d jab for my ectopic pregnancy and then again at 28 weeks pre-emptively for my DD's pregnancy. I was given the choice after the birth of DD to have another jab or wait til we got her blood type. As it turns out she is B Rh neg like me. I'm glad I chose to wait as it saved me getting (another) unnecessary jab.
My DH hates needles and refused wasn't keen on getting his blood taken to see if he was negative.
We moved house when DD was 17 weeks and I found his blood donor card (he only went once as he wasn't very brave) and he is 0 Rh neg.
I won't be having the anti-D injection for any subsequent children. If they tell me they doubt the paternity of my child I will tell them where to go

mears · 05/06/2009 21:43

guyshahar - you could have your blood group checked privately if need be. I am a midwife and in our area the midwife will actually take the parner's blood if asked to check it. The NICE guidelines also state that is the blood group of the partner is known to be rhesus negative then injections are not necessary.
I pwerisonally am concerned about the blase attitude about being injected with a blood product. I have seen many scares over my 25 years career with the NHS of viuses appearing from blood transfusions that were not known about.
There was a problem in Ireland where women were infected with Hep C through anti-D admionistartion. Although that risk has been eradicated, we do not know what total risks there are.

guyshahar · 06/06/2009 07:24

Sadly, they refused to test me. The GP mentioned that it would be possible to do privately, but in such a way that it was clear she really didn't approve of this....

What would really help us would be to know what the consequences could be of not having this injection.

We know that it can prevent a reaction if there is an accidental transfer of blood, but what is the advantage of having this BEFORE this happens? If it does happen and a reaction occurs, can an injection at that time prevent any damage, or may damage be done already?

Someone said they have the injection after birth. Should we understand from this that even if a transfer of blood does happen during birth, this is not an issue for the baby, and the injection will protect for the second baby?

Sorry for all the questions, but we really don't want to have the injection unless there is a tangible benefit to the baby from having it. This is why we would like this information...

OP posts:
Laugs · 06/06/2009 07:58

guyshahar I am Rhesus neg and didn't have the injection during pregnancy. I am unsure whether they forgot about me or it was not yet policy to give it (the community midwives said the latter (after the event), but the hospital midwives from the same PCT all seemed shocked that I hadn't had it - not what I wanted to hear!)

Anyway, DD was born and had her blood tested (I'm not sure for what exactly ... this was after 37 hours of labour. Someone else here will know). Whatever they were looking for in her blood count was 'a little high'. She had to have her blood tested every 4 hours and because it didn't go down immediately, we ended up staying in hospital 2 nights instead of 3. I was told in the worst case scenario, she would need a blood transfusion, but it didn't come to this as it went down on its own. Two weeks after she was born, we went back to hospital to have her blood tested again, but it was fine. There were no subsequent problems.

All of this might be the case for any Rh+ baby born to a Rh- mother, but I got the impression it was not.

I am pregnant again and will be having the anti D offered in pregnancy. Even if you opt not to have it in pregnancy, you would definitely have it after the birth. In the days pre-anti D my grandmother had 8 miscarriages between DC1 and DC2

Laugs · 06/06/2009 08:18

Just read that again - I should have said 'we ended up staying in hospital 3 nights instead of 2'

snickersnack Aren't there some ridiculously high statistics regarding mothers lying about paternity?

pagwatch · 06/06/2009 08:54

I am rhesus neg mother and didn't have the anti-D with my last child as she was to be my last.

It was staggering how reluctant the NHS was to accept that a 40 year old woman with two children already ( including one with severe disabilities) and a husband who had had a vasectomy really really knew her own mind about the fact that this was indeed her last child. Apparently we tend to be "flighty" about these things

mears · 06/06/2009 09:53

guyshahar - I understand what you are saying about the GPs response but I still would urge you to get tested so that your wife does not needlessly receive anti-D if you are rhesus negative. The NICE guidance that all doctors and medical staff have access to does support this option.

I am an example of why women are being offered anti-D during their pregnancy. When I was 37 weeks pregnany with my second child it was discovered that I had developed anti-D antibodies. When I thought about it I had experienced some abdominal pain at 34 weeks which passed itself within a few hours. It is likely that I had a very small bleed from the placenta at that time and blood was able to mix which allowed antibodies to form. However, it wasn't sore enough for me to go to the doctor, and even if I had it is unlikely that this blood mix would have been suspected.

Anti-D needs to be given within 72 hours of an episode of bleeding or suspected bleeding.

I was induced at 39+6 weeks because of the presence of antibodies and my son was nursed under phototherapy as a precaution for 3 days though he did not actually become jaundiced.

Once antibodies have developed they are always there. My husbands blood group was checked when I became pregnant for the third time. It was checked to see whether he was hohozygous positive which meant that all our babies would have a positive blood group or heterozygous positive where the baby could be positive or negative. My DH was honozygous so we knew throughout the pregnancy that the baby would be positive.

The first affected pregnancy and cause a severe antibody reaction which means that the baby's red blood cells are attacked by the antibodies.

I didn't have a severe reaction but the antibodies started to rise at 30 weeks. I was induced at 35+4 weeks and my DS needed to be ventilated because of prematurity. He was nursed under phototherapy for a week and came home at 2 weeks of age. At 6 weeks old he was found to be anaemic and needed a blood transfusion (76ml). The anaemia happens because the maternal antibodies are still circulating in the baby's system for weeks after birth. He was then fine and is now 18 years old.

I then had a miscarriage which was not antibody related.

I then had my fourth child and she was induced at 37 weeks. Tests were done by ultrasound every month to look for signs of developing anaemia. She was nursed under septuple phototherapy (7 times normal) and needed 3 exchange blood transfusions in the first 48 hours of life. She was on folic acid till 12 weeks of age and she had regular blood tests till she was 12 weeks when the anaemia she had corrected itself.

Anti-D injections coat any baby blood cells that are present in the maternal circulation so that the mothers's body does not recognise them to then form antibodies.

So in answer to your question, once you have antibodies they are always there and subsequent pregnancies are affected more. Anti-D injections are not given when you have already developed your own antibodies because the damage is done.

In the past anti-D was given where there was a suspicion of a sensitising event such as abdominal trauma, threatened miscarriage, following amniocentesis. The problem is when a sensitising event is not recognised which happened to me. This is very rare though.

I personally have a concern that all women get anti-D despite this being a rare occurance and who knows what the future will reveal.

THis is why I am urging you to find out your blood group.

Good luck with whatever you decide.

mears · 06/06/2009 09:54

homozygous

mears · 06/06/2009 10:00

Lauga - all babies of Rhesus negative women have their baby's blood group checked at delivery and also what's known as a coombs test done. If the baby is coomb's positive then there is a risk of jaundice and the baby will be nursed under phototherapy and SBR checked (measures level of jaundice).

If the baby is found to be rhesus positive then you are offered anti-D. The mothers blood is also retested for antibodies and another test done though called the Kleihauer which counts the actual fetal cells seen in the mother's circulation. The amount of anti-D is then calculated on this result.

mears · 06/06/2009 10:04

There is a great book here by Sara Wickam which is very informative and makes you wonder about routine administration. Perhaps you could get it from the library. It is very easy to read.

Laugs · 06/06/2009 20:46

Thanks mears, that's useful to know. Does this mean my next baby will still go through the same thing, even though I have had anti-D?

Sorry to hear your story. It sounded incredibly stressful.

mears · 06/06/2009 21:45

I presume you did not develop any antibodies first time round and baby got jaundice that was shortlived? Does not mean that the same thing will happen again. The same tests will be done though post delivery to check baby's blood group.

Laugs · 06/06/2009 21:54

Yes that's right. That makes me feel better actually; I always felt that all the tests etc were due to the fact they had 'forgotten' to give me anti D during pregnancy. Hopefully the new baby will not need any of it.

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