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Pregnancy

Talk about every stage of pregnancy, from early symptoms to preparing for birth.

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Original poster

or should my boyfriend marry me if that's what I want?

25 replies

peachyfox · 17/03/2009 10:47

We're expecting our first child conceived through IVF using donor sperm for medical reasons. My DP is the legal father of the child. We've always mentioned marriage as being part of our future. Now I bring it up (in a highly hormonal manner admittedly) he says he doesn't want to get married although he is committed to me because it's just a bourgeois custom and we're just conforming to the norm.

I don't want to have a different name to the baby, and for obvious reason I do want our baby to have my DPs surname.

Our relationship is happy.

Also we want to adopt more children and I think this would be easier if we were married.

Does anyone know the advantages of being married, for both partners?

OP posts:

Chellesgirl · 17/03/2009 10:53

None. In this country you are treated as married if you live together and have a child. The only difference being is that the father doesnt get all his 'rights' when it comes to the child after one year of baby being born ifyou are not married. (this may have changed now though but still think its true)

Im not married and have 13month old. At first i thought we should get married to be a 'family' but now we have dd its so not that important anymore. we are waiting till we have the money and maybe another child.

MrsTittleMouse · 17/03/2009 10:55

He shouldn't marry you just because it's what you want - he has to want it too. But there are lots of practical legal snd financial reasons to get married - inheritance rights, pension rights, the ability to transfer money between you without getting the tax man involved (we do this to take advantage of my income tax allowance as I'm a SAHM). You automatically become each other's next of kin, so if something bad happens you get the right to be at the bedside, the right to make medical decisions for each other. Your DP will get automatic parental rights. If one of you got a fantasticjob opportunity abroad, the other would be allowed to go too.

Well, you get the idea. All these things were a big part of our decision to tie the knot, although there were emotional benefits for being next of kin too.

Chellesgirl · 17/03/2009 10:57

Mrstittlemouse didnt even know bout the tax man thing! Might gat married sooner then haha

RealityIsMyOnlyDelusion · 17/03/2009 10:58

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

hidingidentity · 17/03/2009 11:01

peachyfox
Sorry complete hijack, but I've just seen that you used a donor and you're the first other Mum I've seen on here that has done that too. We have two DDs from donor sperm and they are gorgeous. Congratulations on your pregnancy.

sachertorte · 17/03/2009 11:02

Shocking shocking shocking how people do not know that living together is NOT the same as being married.. That looks like a good link!

wannaBe · 17/03/2009 11:02

"In this country you are treated as married if you live together and have a child." That is totally wrong. There is no such thing as a common law marriage.

As an unmarried partner you essentially have no rights if your dp were to die, you wouldn't be entitled to any widow benefits, you would have to pay inheritance tax on his estate (provided he had a will), if he didn't have a will his estate would go to his next of kin.

You are not legally the next of kin so if he died you could not register the death, arrange the funeral, if he was seriously ill you could not make decisions about his treatment...

If you split you would have no entitlements wrt assets - only maintenance for your child.

Littlefish · 17/03/2009 11:04

MrsTitlemouse - can you tell me more about "the ability to transfer money between you without getting the tax man involved (we do this to take advantage of my income tax allowance as I'm a SAHM".

I work part time and earn considerably less than my dh. I just wondered if this could work for us .

geordieminx · 17/03/2009 11:08

Second what everyone else has said about the benefits of being married,but

Would you honestly want to stand up in a church/registery office/wherever and say your vows knowing that the man standing next to you doesnt actually want to be there, and is just doing it to keep you happy? I couldnt do that.

Hawkmoth · 17/03/2009 11:12

Chellesgirl, if the father is named on the birth certificate (he has to go ith the mother to register) he has equal parental respnsibility.

Marriage is what you make it, and it certainly doesn't have to be a bourgoise wedding!

DP's divorce isn't finalised yet, could be another three months. I veer between wanting to waddle up the aisle while contracting, and having a nice relaxed summer do next year with all the children on the photos!

I think you can set up all the paperwork to get equal right, like power of attorney and things like that... but it takes a lot of work. Much more than (cynically) half an hour in the register office. Ask him to look into it and see if he would be willing to do the work...

I guess part of it boils down to whether it's a practical or emotional issue for both of you. He'd be hard pressed to find argument against the practical side, the emotional side is for you both to sort together

Congratulations BTW

MrsTittleMouse · 17/03/2009 11:13

If you have any assets that give you an income - in our case it's our savings - then you can put them in the name of the person who doesn't have an income and use the income tax allowance. Interest rates are so rubbish now it's great that we can stop the tax man taking a cut!

You can do this if one of you is in the 40% bracket, but the other pays basic rate too.

Flibbertyjibbet · 17/03/2009 11:14

I learned the very hard way when I split from my ex, that living together is not the same as being married.

That said, current dp and I are not married and have children, but we live in the house that I bought before we got together. He has his own house across town that we rent out for family income, so we are equal and will stay equal should we split and he return to his house. (Not that we are planning to!) I wouldn't have had children with him unmarried if we were not on an equal 'assets and finances' footing.

I also await with eager anticipation Mrs Tittlemouse's explanation of this transfering money between spouses without getting the tax man involved. Unless its to use savings accounts in your name to keep money from your dh's taxed income, I have a feeling that its not something the tax man actually wants you to do.

MinkyBorage · 17/03/2009 11:15

chellesgirl you are SO SO WRONG!!!!!!!!! A cohabiting couple do not assume the rights of a married couple. It is just not true.

Flibbertyjibbet · 17/03/2009 11:17

As I thought, its just the savings thing MrsT! Nothing dodgy then .

OP I forgot to say, firstly congratulations!
Secondly, he should marry you because he wants to, not because there's a baby on the way or because you want him to. In the past I've heard men moan about their wives and then when asked 'well why did you marry her?' the answer has been 'cos she nagged me into it'.

Not that you would, but just let him make his own mind up and remember that even the slightest hints on your part will be seen as nagging on his

MrsTittleMouse · 17/03/2009 11:18

Sorry flibberty - that's what it was. I'm far too straight laced and boring to get involved in any dodgy tax avoidance schemes.

It makes a big difference to us to get all of our interest, rather than lose a fifth and tends to become more and more useful the older you get and the more that you save (generally).

Flibbertyjibbet · 17/03/2009 11:22

We use our full isa allowance each year but sadly both earn enough to pay tax at the same rate
Do have some money in the children's accounts though thats more mine than theirs...

Chellesgirl · 17/03/2009 11:36

thats not what the DWP say. especially if your on benefits - they take it as if you are married.

But you know I'd keep your relationship happy for now as you say it is. forcing him into a marriage is not a good move.

Original poster

peachyfox · 17/03/2009 11:38

Hi hidingidentity you hijacker you - aren't donors great! I'm so grateful to ours. Glad you got your lovely family and would love to hear your story and views on the matter one day...

From what I gather, unmarried I have the rights of a mother, but not of a wife.

Mostly I'm worried because I think it will damage our chances of adopting more children in the future.

Anyway, Romeo and Juliet didn't dream of shacking up together did they?

OP posts:

mrsboogie · 17/03/2009 11:50

peachyfox presumably you weren't too worried about this before you got pregnant? so maybe you are just feeling a little bit vulnerable now that you are, and hormonal which is totally totally understandable. Why not wait until after you have given birth and the hormones have settled down to have a rational discussion about it. Perhaps your DP feels that he has enough on his plate right now?

After all if he wants to adopt with you and not being married is a barrier to that then he will have to reconsider. But like the others say, he has to want to get married or there's just no point.

We are not married either but I can totally understand how a baby might make you feel that some added security is needed...

Original poster

peachyfox · 17/03/2009 11:54

Reality I looked at that site you linked, but under parental responsibility it refers to non-biological fathers and biological fathers, and I'm not quite sure what the law would be in the case of a child conceived by donor sperm under the legal responsibility of the father. Not the biological father in this article must refer to cases where there is or was a biological father. Our clinic just said by law he was the father, and there was no need to take any further legal steps.

It's a bit confusing

OP posts:

pagwatch · 17/03/2009 12:07

absoloutely staggering that women still think that without taking any legal steps to protect themselves they are as protected unmarried as married.

hidingidentity · 17/03/2009 12:11

We are so grateful to ours too. Even my very traditional and conservative FIL goes on about what a lovely chap he must have been.

I don't know about the legal issues though, as we were already married when we had our girls. I'm guessing that the clinic had you sign the paperwork that your DP would raise your donor children as his own though, so maybe that covers you. From what I last knew, you could have your DP take parental responsibility when you register the birth (like any other non-married parent). There was talk of legally requiring the donor to be on the birth certificate, but as far as I know that hasn't been made law. Personally I think that's a gross invasion of the child's privacy, but that's another story.

MrsMattie · 17/03/2009 12:13

I think it's a shame that your DP wasn't clearer about his position on marriage before you got pregnant. If it's really important to you (for whatever) reason, then it's not something you're going to be able to forget about.

Can you arrange a civil, non-hormonal discussion about this?

I also echo what others have said re: Chellegirl's comments. If you are not married, you absolutely do not have the same protection as a married woman. That's not to say that you can't arrange some of that protection through drawing up a legally recognised document - but perhaps that would be 'too bourgeois' for your DP, too?

babyc · 17/03/2009 12:28

the father does not have the same rights as the mother, even if he is on the birth certificate, unless married. Living together is legally not he same as being married - and as mrsmattie says you can get a legal doc drawn up, however even this isn't the same. If your child is ill, your DP won't have the right to consent to care if you are not married.
You have had ivf, which, speaking from experience is awful both physically and emotionally, yet you both went through it as a sacrifice to have a child. Compared to that is a small wedding such a big deal? it might not be romantic, but it sounds like your dp doesn't want a huge wedding - after ivf getting married isn't such a big sacrifice in order to offer you and your baby security.

Original poster

peachyfox · 17/03/2009 14:01

babyc I don't want a big wedding either. I would be happy with just signing a certificate. Oh, and the rock please...

OP posts:

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