If I was exposed to listeria when pregnant......

[kwaker5]

would I know about it and how would I know if it had harmed the baby?

Just found out smoked salmon is on the 'banned' list and I've been scoffing loads of it (am almost 20 weeks, have been craving it madly and thought the omegas would be good for me and baby!).

Also, mussels are OK if properly cooked aren't they? DH is out on his motorbike bringing back a couple of kilos from the north Norfolk coast as I type!

ok, this is not professional knowledge, but as I understand it, you're no more likely to get listeria than anyone else eating the product, its just risky if you get it when pregnant, hence the advice to avoid certain products which vary in different countries. i think it makes you very sick, so you would know if you'd had it. Hth.

Smoked salmon is not actually on the banned list in the UK, because here the listeria risk from smoked salmon is infinitessimal. Which i probably spelt wrong. I'm 29 weeks and I've eaten smoked salmon all the way through. I'd keep going if I were you, but remember not to eat toooooo much oily fish.

Mussels are much dodgier, but they do say that if you cook them through properly and eat them straight away it shouldn't be a problem.

Does salmon fall into the mercury category then? Glad to hear the risk is so minimal for listeria.

I am PG with number 2 and got lots of raised eyebrows from the women expecting their first when I was stuffing my face with enjoying smoked salmon canapes at the work Christmas lunch. Thought the 'rules' must have changed.

Have never been ill from eating mussels from where we buy them. I'd never have them under any other circumstances while PG.

I think a lot of these ''banned'' foods are load of rubbish! Listeria is very rare in the UK, I've gone all my life without ever contracting it or knowing anybody who's ever contracted it so I'm doubtful that I'm likely to get it within my 9 months of pregnancy.
Women have been successfully having babies since the beginning of human kind and it's only within recent years that we've been told we can't eat this and that.
I'm still careful about what I eat but I don't take all these warnings too seriously.

It isn't that rare - my uncle had it from Pate and FIL from cheese in the past five years.

Smoked salmon is fine, however imo - I've been eating it and intent to continue. It's all about common sense.

And in answer to the question both of the above people were extremely ill for weeks. So yes, if you had it then you would know about it!

So I really, really can't eat Stilton then. I am craving blue cheese sooooo much. I'm missing it more than booze...

You are slightly immunosuppressed when pregnant and therefore more likely to succumb to food poisoning. Several sites I've read say 20 times more likely to get it than general population.

Blue cheese is a risk, Poppet45. I feel your pain on that one.

Who knew I'd miss stinky cheese more than the old sly ciggie and a glass of crisp white wine...

Hmmm crisp white wine...

Listeria cases are increasing (I know someone who lost their baby to it last year, she believes she contracted it from pre packed salad ) - though it is still quite rare it can be very serious (there are about 170 deaths a year). It is a food safety issue, & while it can be present in pretty much anything high risk foods include pre-packed sandwiches & salads, cooked deli meats, smoked salmon, soft cheeses and pates.

You can still eat smoked salmon though - just freeze it for 24 hours before you eat it

I don't trust bagged salad actually because it often smells funny and it bagged days before you eat it. For that reason I think that pre-packed sandwiches are less likely to be a problem as they have not had the same length of time for the bacteria to multiply. I don't think the ss risk is listeria, I think it's that toxo whatever bug anyway. I also think that most soft cheeses are absolutely fine, as long as they are pasteurised and fairly new - it's the mould ripened you need to avoid.

The fact is that there are probably loads of bugs in your fridge unless you fumigate it daily. You can get food poisoning in fact from absolutely anything, it's just a case of being careful.

Packaged sandwiches are actually very high in risk of carrying bugs, I saw a programme where they tested sandwiches from random sandwich shops etc and a surprising high percentage carried various germs and diseases. They're not as innocent as they look.
As far as freezing food to kill germs goes, that's rubbish! It stops germs and bacteria from growing whilst froozen but doesn't kill it.

Ooh dont say that.. i just ate a pre packed sandwich..

I'm never eating pre-packed salad or sandwiches again...

Blue cheese - I told my doctor I was pining for blue cheese during my last pregnancy and he said 'Go on, have your blue cheese'. So I did. Haven't kept off it for pregnancy number 2 either. What is it I'm supposed to get - listeria again is it?
Poppy

Would your doctor be there to pick up the pieces if you were that 1/1000 that was affected, though PoppyField? The reason I didn't have any of what I craved in any of my 3 pregnancies (DC3 is due in April) is that I didn't want to be able to even try and blame myself if my DC was poorly. I was SO tempted by a rare steak at 32 weeks with DD2, that I was drooling, but in the end I knew the guilt would destroy me.

Fortunately for me. DD1 now has developmental delays, and DD2 was born at 35+4 after she stopped growing. I know it wasn't due to my carelessness, because I stuck to the guidance. I know I would be thinking about that steak

Having said that, lots of people have a far less guilty streak in them, so could take it on the chin!

Freezing will kill toxoplasmosis because that is a parasite, not bacteria.

Doctors are not food microbiologists and as such I'd be extremely wary of taking their advice over that of the FSA, who are the expert body on this subject.

Listeria can take effect between 3 and 70 days from ingesting the bacteria. I always feel bemused when people say they had it from a particular cheese/pate/whatever, as surely in most cases the link is only supposed, rather than based on a food sample being tested and found positive for the microorganism.

But then even if it was tested unless the levels were extremely high because we ingest bacteria without getting ill all the time. Two people can eat the same thing - one is ill and one isn't.

In terms of pre-packed sandwiches - if I make my own out of my own fridge then they will also contain bacteria. If you take it to extremes then you would never eat anything!

As someone who has suffered from listeria based food poisoning, just like to reassure you that you really would know about it if you fell ill. It is not like a subtle cold type symptoms or slight lethargy/something that could be mistaken as morning sickness. Perhaps it is different in different people, but for me I was really ill and no question that it was food poisoning. Fortunately not pregnant at the time. DH and I work from home and tend to eat almost identical food so suprised that he did not fall sick. Obviously no exact idea what made me ill as it could have been over a long timespan. I suspect some homemade pate I made in a huge batch and had in the house a while, but will never know.

People who make prepacked sandwiches do so on abysmal pay in very poor conditions, usually. I don't eat them when PG (and consequently have huge cravings for them) but there is a risk and pregnancy increases the risk you'll get ill. I have twice been ill outside of pregnancy when I'm fairly sure a prepacked sandwich was to blame.

As someone who has had a stillborn baby (not food poisoning related) I would second Lou's suggestion that eating dodgy food in pregnancy is really not a risk worth taking. I have found it extremely hard to exclude high risk food - I get extremely sick in pg and have wide ranging food aversions so that some days I can find nothing that I can remotely stomach that isn't on the banned list. Nevertheless, I just wouldn't do it.

I think it depends what you define as 'pre-packed' sandwiches. They aren't all mass produced in that way.

Cooked blue cheese is OK if that helps anyone's craving?

thanks purplemyrtle, but it's not quite the same. I daren't have it to cook with - I would eat it when it's all cold and lovely mmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

been eating smoked salmon and brie all the time. Only thing I have avoided is pate. I dont eat shellfish anyway

I'm off to cook some stilton and...
just cook stilton actually.

No not really, a bit early for me, I'll risk it after 12 weeks. But thanks for the fab suggestion!