Eating shellfish

[colette]

The peanut discussion has reminded me-is it safe to eat shellfish ? I love prawns and really miss eating them ,I can't find any reference to not eating them in the two pregnancy books I've got but I remember hearing you should avoid them (I think it's to do with food poisoning risk) Does anyone know if this is the case ? Also how about feta cheese? Is it a soft cheese therefore a nono?
It does seem as if banned foods become more desirable!

I think that prawns ARE forbidden, due to the high risk of food poisoning. Also, any unpasteurised cheese. I am not sure about Feta, perhaps you could look it up on the internet, or else someone else here will know. Also, avoid any products with raw/soft cooked egg, pates (high in Vitamin A, which is bad for baby in too high a quantity), and rare meats. Also, it is recommended that you avoid pre-cooked meat products in case of poisoning.

When I was pg with ds, I started longing for a rare steak, spaghetti carbonara and a large glass of red wine! Oh well, you go off all your favourite things (chocolate/coffee/diet coke/roast dinners), and can't eat all the others...at least it is only for 9 months!

I'm really not sure about all these things that they say you shouldn't eat. I can't imagine in France they take a blind bit of notice and keep eating whatever they want. What do these Mediterraneans eat who live by the coast and whose diet is mainly seafood? Seems odd that since they brought in these dos and donts that there are more cases of allegies in children. I cannot remember one person when I was growing up having an allegy but now there are a couple at ds' nursery and at the nct things I've been to. The worse one had to be one poor baby who was allergic to all fruit and a lot of veg. Even worse he was allergic to tomatoes, I don't think I would have much left to cook if I didn't use tomatoes.

I ate prawns all throughout my pregnancy even through it's a no-no.
I never ate them in restaurants because you don't know how long they have been out but I would buy them fresh, clean them and fortunately never had a problem.

I know I shouldn't have but I'm afraid the cravings got the better of me!

I think Megg has a really good point. Are we made to be too careful?

I must admit that I would have a teaspoon of peanut butter every month whilst pregnant because it bothered me more to think that my baby wouldn't be used to peanuts and therefore could be more prone to having an allergic reaction when he is older.

My mum ate peanut butter all the time, whilst pregnant with me and my brother and we are both fine but is so hard to know what to do for the best.

The general advice is that shellfish is OK as long as it is cooked. Raw prawns etc. can contain bacteria and viruses.

I agree with other mumsnetters that prawns are best avoided although they were my big craving with dd1, i managed to hold back and only had them once at a christmas do. As for feta I got told during my second pregnancy (my cravings were caesar salad dripping with olive oil) so I didn't touch it at all.

I also tended to find that all the foods that I craved were the ones I couldn't have especially liver and garlic pate

Thanks for the advice
I avoid (but crave) peanut butter because my dd has asthma. I'm still undecided on the prawns as I wouldn't eat them out but in theory if I cook them myself they should be o.k . However if I do eat them I'll probably end up worrying about it after!!
Chinchilla I still have the odd glass of red wine - haven't gone off it at all still like coffee and love chocalate more than ever. I went completely off brown bread and craved stodge !!

When I was pregnant with ds I ask GP about no no food. He said I could eat anything I wanted, so I did. This time there seems to be more things added to things we shouldn't eat. I take the view that if I cooked it it should be OK. There are things I wouldn't eat if I went out, but thats the same pg or not.

I am a very big red wine lover and found that this was the one I could not do without during my second pregnancy, obviously any alcohol during pregnancy is potentially dangerous so I used to have one glass on a friday night and found myself counting down because I enjoyed it so much, I did however go off my favourite food, Pizza, and favourite drink, Cola and couldn't drink enough ice cold lemonade, I still cannot touch uncooked chicken, i started preparing it whilst 7 months with dd2 and started gipping, i am still like that now. When all these lists come out about what we can and can't eat it makes you wonder what was eaten years ago when foods were very limited. Obviously then though there were not all these chemicals, e-numbers and pesticides flying about then.

Yes, but it is very easy to say 'Oh my mum ate that, and I was fine', but we have more knowledge now than then. When my mum was pg with me, they did not have scans, but that does not mean that I will not take advantage of the increase in knowledge and technology around now!

I doubt very much if my parents ate much goats cheese, pate and rare steak, as those foods were not so common and available as they are now. OK, so I know that I am generalising, but I know that I would have never have forgiven myself if I had done eaten anything that had subsequently caused my baby to miscarry. I have heard of a woman who ate goats cheese in France whilst 37 weeks pg. She got food poisoning, and a previously healthy foetus died. OK, this might be an 'urban myth', as it is supposed to be a woman that my SIL knows, but why take the risk? I agree that the risks inherent in soft cheese are probably negated by cooking, but other food no-no's are just common sense.

I did not drink a drop of alcohol whilst pg with ds, and I know now that this was a bit excessive. However, I was very worried about any chance of mis-carrying. With my second, I would have a drink a week I think, if I fancied it. The only reason that I would not have steak during pregnancy is that I like my steak on the bloody side, and I can't stand well-done shoe leather!

I was very careful when I was pg, don't think I'd be the same again.
I would have thought that most of the soft cheeses bought in a supermarket, are alright as they are pasturised, but not the special unpasturised type, we by from the deli.

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feta cheese is considered a 'danger' food if it is made with unpasteurized milk, which most are. HOwever, the danger is pretty small. Cream cheeses are fine, the ones to avoid are the mould ripened ones like brie and camembert or blue cheeses or soft cheeses made with unpasteurised milk. All cheeses are fine if they are cooked and hot, however, so you can satisfy your cravings that way.

I did eat prawns during my two pregnancies, but only those I bought 'fresh' and uncooked from Sainsburys which I then cooked to a frazzle myself. Would definitely be a bit 'iffy' about buying them in a ready made sandwich, or at a 'do' when you don't know how long they've been hanging around. Also ate lots of Gruyere, which although not a soft cheese is made with unpasterised milk. Happy to say no side effects from either!

All hard cheeses are OK - the listeria bacteria doesn't grow in them. I also didn't stick to 'the rules' all the time. I decided that a little bit of pate on toast wouldn't cause a deformed baby. I'm a goat's cheese addict and ate lots of it - always grilled to bits though.

The advice from my midwife was that if i had ever had a reaction to shellfish (I have been very sick after eating mussels) then I should avoid them. I think for a most people a prawn sandwich would be fine! On other things, I guess some of the problems didn't exist for our mothers because listeria and salmonella were just not as common as they sadly are today. The alcohol debate has been carried on elsewhere; but my mw did advise me with my last pg not to drink anything at all. Personally find this easier; on the other hand there's a lot to be said for anything that makes you feel good when pg and if that's a glass of wine once a week then I reckon it's a good idea.

Actually Aloha all hard cheeses are not OK, something like Appenzeler (a potent hard cheese) is not made from pasturised milk. A good deli should tell you if a cheese is made from pasturised or unpasturised milk but your standard cheddar, etc, is OK. I love cheeses and have been surprised to find some really soft smelly cheeses (something called St Andre is OK to eat and is really pongy and scrummy!) are made from pasturised milk and so are OK to eat which is a real treat for me. It's definitely worth going to a deli if you have a strong desire for some tasty cheese as you can be pleasantly surprised as to what you can eat.

I am pg for the 2nd time and I eat soft cheeses, Feta, prawns, mussels, clams, peanut butter and even drink the odd glass of wine. I figure if you buy stuff from reputable supermarkets, then the chances of getting listeria are nil (or as near nil as I can be worried about). Everything in moderation is my pregnancy moto. Am not a great one for bleaching down the surfaces and keeping dd out of the dirt either. I agree with a lot of the mums on this thread - too much caution and cleanliness is BORING. But each to their own.

As I understand it all hard cheeses are fine - the curds have to be heated as part of the manufacturing process, plus the maturing processes (60days+) kill off remaining listeria bacteria as there isn't enough moisture to support the bacteria. I suppose if you ate a hard cheese made of unpasteurized milk immediately after manufacture in the dairy you would face a tiny risk.

I think it's always worth understanding the reasons behind not eating something... Like aloha's interesting "fact" about hard cheeses. Understanding the reasoning helps you make a judgement. It's those first three months which are the most critical... this is when the feotus is at most risk. Pates and soft cheeses, raw eggs and seafood are because of food poisoning, but remember that most EC rules state these products must be cooked, pasturised etc, so they remain safe. Supermarkets don't want the litigation from dodgy foods. You are most at risk when in France (or abroad in general) where they might ignore these directives, because of their love for their cultural foodstuffs - and having been brought up on the stuff, their own pregnant women are probably more tolerant than we are (for the "well French women must still eat it all" argument... I am a seafood addict, and ate a little whilst PG, but there is a much higher risk of food poisoning, so I avoided it. I have to say I ate feta cheese though - cause I kinda never realised it was goats cheese. DOH!

Remember, add it to your first post-pregnancy shopping list, and gorg on it then - gives you something to look forward to! (and my midwife said even breastfeeding, these no-no foods were OK)...

Feta is sometimes made from cows milk too, rather than goats milk. The packet I bought on Sat was anyway.

Now I am confused as I always thought that feta was made primarily from sheep's milk.

I agree totally Pamina. The most violent bouts of food poisoning I have suffered haven't been from any of the supposed danger foods. Instead they would seem to have been caused by poor food hygiene and storage.

thought feta was sheeps milk?? No idea if that is on the blacklist - I ate it anyway.
I think the quality of info given out on food risks in pregnancy is appalling - most of it doesn't even explain what the risk is (i.e. what problem you're trying to avoid), let alone how common the problem is.
As others have said, a lot of the advice (about shellfish, eggs, cooked meat, unpasteurised cheese etc) is basic food hygiene directed at avoiding common or garden food poisoning (salmonella, campylobacter, e coli etc) These can be nastier in pg and make you quite ill but otherwise no specific risk to the fetus (IIRC). Listeria is a specific problem (associated with certain foods like soft cheese, cook chill meals etc) which CAN cause miscarriage, but it is very very rare (much rarer than 'normal' food poisoning). There again there is also toxoplasmosis, which can be acquired from poorly cooked meat or from cat faeces (yuk) and can cause fetal abnormalities.

So quite different potential consequences, and likelihood of them occurring, which might well affect your behaviour.
And then, some risks are not highlighted at all - like the risks if you catch chicken pox in pregnancy - much more serious IMO than worrying about whether your eggs are solid in the middle!

One of my best friends lives in France. Throughout both her pregnancies she ate shellfish, pate, soft and blue cheeses and drank a glass of wine most days, as do most French women. I was at a wedding in Italy in October and was chatting to an Italian Mum about food and she couldn't beleive all the things we are told to avoid - she had a craving for Gorgonzola while pregnant so ate loads of it.
I must admit that I ate shellfish in both pregnancies. We live on a very clean shoreline with mussells and scallops available to pick if you want - and I ate both through both pregnancies - yummmmmy!!

I thought it was soft cheese that was to be avoided, not specifically goats cheese. Not all goats cheese is soft cheese.