Breastfeeding logistics

[Elephant768]

First time mother and so this question might scream nativity and hopelessness. I want to try to exclusively breastfeed for first 6 months. Of course I’m aware that it just doesn’t work out for an array of reasons so I’m also prepared to bottle feed if needed…. ‘Fed’ is best as they say!

Or maybe exclusively breastfeeding is the incorrect term. I want to breastfeed whenever I can and then if I’m asleep for a few hours and my husband can feed the baby with a bottle that I have ‘pumped’. How far advance can I express milk?! How much do I need to pump if I know I’m going to have a nap when husband is home? Or if I want to get some fresh air and leave baby with grandparents and a bottle? How often do I need to pump?

It’s quite a crucial question because I know everyone stresses the importance of getting some rest and I suppose in order to do so it would be great if I can pump and give someone a bottle. Appreciate that might not work, some babies refuse a bottle, maybe I can’t pump enough etc - in which case formula would be the second best option

I guess my question is, is pumping / expressing efficient and has it helped mothers get some rest and does it help in planning?

Thanks so much

And how much does a newborn drink? Ie if I pumped a bottle do they drink an entire bottle per feed? I’m so sorry for such a ridiculous question - I have booked antenatal classes but maybe want to save the embarrassment of asking what might be so obvious

Never really worked for me, I tried pumping a few times with dd1 and never got more than 1oz, also she wanted feeding every 3 hours (except for a longer stint at night after a few weeks) until she weaned. So there was never time to pump really as I needed the milk for her next feed. I saved a few bags of 1oz each but she refused the bottle anyway so I gave up.

she only ever drank 3oz though even when she did eventually accept a bottle (of formula at over 6 months), so I expect this was all I produced and the extent of how much her stomach could hold until she started with solids. All babies are different though, you’ll just have to see how you go.

You can freeze breastmilk, or store it in the fridge for I think 3 days. So no real need to worry about how far in advance to pump.

I’m sorry that my other answers are going to be more vague!
Amount is hard to say because it will change all the time as the baby gets older, and obviously vary from baby to baby and also from feed to feed depending on how much they fed beforehand. You’ll get an idea of it though.
How often will depend again on how often you want them to have an expressed bottle, and how much you can pump. If it’s daily you’ll probably have to express at least once a day - to be totally honest for me this was more work than just feeding her directly myself as looking after a baby alone, breastfeeding, and then also trying to get time to express during the day was too much. This got easier once they got bigger and dropped a late evening feed so I’d express then instead.

I would really recommend following LucyWebberFeedingSupport on Instagram. But realistically, if you want to bf, for the first 6 weeks, you need to focus on getting your supply established. That means that even if you pump in advance to give expressed milk to the baby, you will need to pump again whilst baby is feeding so that you dont skip a feed. The way bf works is that every time you remove milk from your breasts (either by feeding the baby or pumping), it sends a signal to make more milk. If you dont remove milk (by skipping feeds) then it impacts your supply. So you dont really gain anything by pumping - its best to just hunker down and accept the madness of those first six weeks. I spent most of them either feeding in bed watching tv or feeding on the sofa watching tv. You have to aim for 8-12 feeds per day.

Once you get past six weeks, everything starts to settle down (in theory!) and you can pump in advance without risking your supply being affected. You also then know roughly how much baby will drink at a time. To start with, I found it trial and error and id often end up defrosting more than I needed but we got there in the end.

You could also look for an IBCLC near you - https://lcgb.org/find-an-ibclc-map/ some of them also offer antenatal appointments for advice before baby is here.

Both of my DDs had really tricky feeding experiences and I was never able to exclusively bf them - i did a mix of bf, pumping and formula when it was clear that their weight gain was extremely slow (DD1 in particular was poorly when she was born and only on the 0.4th centile). So if you do end up using some formula alongside bf, it is a position that lots of us find ourselves in! Good luck! If you are doing NCT, then they have a whole session dedicated to bf and you ask loads of questions.

You need to pump at the time the baby is getting the feed. Best time to get 'extra milk' is to pump after the first morning feed as you'll have a slightly higher supply. But in general, if your baby is getting a bottle you need tk be pumping at that tkme.so.your body knows it needs to make milk for that feed. The amount a baby will take will vastly depend on the age and feeding pattern of the baby. Pumping is not recommended in the first 6 weeks.

Also be warned that babies like to and NEED to cluster feed for the first few weeks. I'd recommend looking it up. It is bloody hard as it feels never-ending but it's a necessity to stabilise your flow.

Realistically you probably won't be leaving a breastfed baby with your partner or grandparents for too long anyway as your boobs will need the baby just as much as baby needs you!

I think its best to not think too much in to it beforehand. I have two dc, both breastfed. The first few days to weeks are all about building your supply up and that includes a lot of feeding through the night. Schedules and routines dont happen in the early days and I found myself with a baby almost permanently latched to me. My first dc didn't take to a bottle at all and so that very rarely happened. My second dc did and so I was able to combi feed but not straight away. I would get to a breastfeeding support group ASAP after baby is born and get advise about latching from midwife as soon as. It can feel brutal at first but trust me things settle down and I found it was so much more convenient after a while to breast feeding rather than having to prepare bottles. I fed both of mine until they were two. Good luck with it all!

Honestly this seems like a great idea in theory, but the reality is exhausting. I found it the worst of all worlds as I was constantly on a feeding schedule of breast or pumping to protect/maintain supply, and then you’ve got the faff of sterilising everything. It’s far easier to just whip a boob out whenever needed in my experience.

Pumping really isn't worth the effort generally. I did loads of it with DC1 and spent ages getting him to take a bottle and leaving the house to the sound of him screaming so DH could try. Just so I could have a day at a hen do when he was about 5 months old.

With DC2 I gave away the pump before she was even born as I knew I couldn't he arsed with it and she never had one bottle.

If you want to maximise your sleep you're better off making sure you get a few hours in the early morning at weekends and before your partner goes to work. And learning to feed lying down.

Congratulations on your pregnancy 🎉. It's great you're looking into the logistics of it now.

Just to note one thing that surprises a lot of new mums is how often a newborn breastfed baby feeds. It's constant. Especially when they're cluster feeding during a growth spurt.

If you are giving a bottle, it should be the same time every day to allow baby and your milk supply to adjust. Look in to paced bottle feeding and slow flow teats.

For pumping, first thing in the morning will yield the most. How much you pump isn't indicative of how much milk you have FYI. Babies are way more effective at removing milk, and not every responds well to pumps.

Combi feeding is an option that a lot of mums (myself included) opt for as it allows for a better rest. I hated pumping!

I got let down dysphoria (sadness when your milk comes in) for the first few weeks and found that unbearable while pumping.

Have a think about what you'll do if breastfeeding is challenging too. It is for many of us - can you look in to a private lactation consultant, what supports are in your community, etc.,

After breastfeeding was established, I used a haakaa type silicone pump to collect a bit of milk whilst baby was feeding (not anything like every feed, just enough to build a bit of a supply in the freezer). This meant it took no extra time, but you do have to be a bit careful to manage both baby and pump at the same time.

On average, a breastfed baby needs about 35mL per hour, or a little over 1oz per hour, so that gives you a rough guide of how much you'd need to have pumped if you want to leave baby. It's generally a bit less when they are very small, but breastmilk changes with the baby, so the volume doesn't change as much as you might think as they grow. Those are 24 hour averages, so if baby is not feeding much overnight, they'd need more during the day, so you'd need to leave more per hour during the day.

It's easiest to just feed the baby directly. You can feed the baby and then go and have a nap and your husband can take the baby out for a walk/nap in the pram for a couple of hours without a bottle.

This x1000

Thanks all for the advice. I’m probably overthinking it all. In that case I will most likely just try to exclusively breast feed for ease. I didn’t realise it was OK to give baby to husband without any kind of bottle for a couple hours. What if he cries and won’t stop until he’s fed? Is it cruel to not have a bottle on stand boy?

im entering my third trimester and starting to overthink all of the logistics

Thanks all for the advice. I’m probably overthinking it all. In that case I will most likely just try to exclusively breast feed for ease. I didn’t realise it was OK to give baby to husband without any kind of bottle for a couple hours. What if he cries and won’t stop until he’s fed? Is it cruel to not have a bottle on stand boy?

im entering my third trimester and starting to overthink all of the logistics

That depends on age and will change very quickly. At a month old I wouldn't have left them for a couple of hours. By 2 months I would do if they'd just had a feed. You have to play it by ear a bit and not plan too much.

As a newborn a couple of hours will be too long but fine when they are a few months old. Try not to overthink too much and go with the flow. All babies are different and it takes a time for you all to settle in to a routine but you will.

You will quickly learn how long you can leave the baby. But in the first say 6-8 weeks you absolutely cannot leave them for hours. Your boobs will also be on fire if you did that 😂

What I used to do alot was feed baby and hand him to dad or pop him in the moses basket and nap on the couch. Babies actually pretty much only do 3 things for quite awhile - Eat, sleep, pee/poo! 20 minute catnaps whilst your partner has the baby or the baby is safely asleep in a moses basket or bassinet etc will be your life saver.

Also I made sure I got out twice a day (morning and afternoon) for a quick walk, about 20 mins each time but the fresh air was needed!

It's great that you're really keen to breastfeed and hopefully it will work really well for you. As others have said once you get BF established if it's going smoothly it's the handiest thing in the world and for me was much much easier than thinking of the logistics of pumping freezing defrosting reheating sterilising, I just didn't have the brain capacity!!

Re some of the logistics you asked about:
In the first 6w, right after a feed you could leave baby with DH or your parent and go up for a sleep, someone can bring the baby up to you when they need their next feed and you can do a quick feed and hand them back and sleep more if needed.
In theory, right after a feed you could leave and go e.g. for a short walk or a coffee but don't overestimate how far/much you'll be able to walk in those early weeks of recovery. You'd only walk for maybe 15 mins, or drive to the nearest cafe for a quick cuppa, so you're unlikely to be away from your baby for that long that they need another feed. Plus hormones make you not want to be away for long.

After the 1st 6w if you're up and running with bf my experience is that it can be good to trial a bottle, especially if you have future events that you want to get away for like a lunch or a night out. I know some disagree but I found it good to get mine used to a bottle young in casenof emergencies. When I got to the stage of trialling a bottle (in order to be able to leave baby with someone for longer usually around 10weeks) I always just ended up trialling formula as dealing with pumped breastmilk just seemed a faff and I figured my parents etc could get formula in any shop if they were stuck in any unexpected situation. Still managed to bfeed til 10 months for both kids so it had no adverse effects

Be kind to yourself, as a fellow overthinker I relate to the desire to control things especially in the last trimester when everything feels very out of your control but my experience has been that the best way to go into bfeeding is with an open mind and loose expectations. Friends who've come at it quite intensely have had a harder experience (I mean that kindly and hope it doesn't cause offence).
Lastly don't be afraid at antenatal classes , no question is stupid :)

You can freeze breastmilk. But to be honest, too much faff, i demand fed mine, was fine, just sleep when they sleep

Some great advice and experiences here. One thing to add is there is a feedback loop between you and the baby. The first few days you will produce only small quantities of very rich, yellow milk called colostrum, you will not want to give a bottle at this point if you can although those first few days are exhausting, because it's really nutritious and your body needs to receive the signals to start to produce more. A newborn's stomach is about the size of a walnut so around an ounce per feed but this goes up quickly. Then about 3 days in, sometimes more if you've had a c-section, you get a hormonal rush and you will find the volume of milk you are able to produce increases. At this point quite a few women feel that they can now pump because they feel engorged, but you want to be a little careful with this as you will produce to supply whatever the demand is, I would just pump to relieve engorgement if you need to and let the baby determine the volume.

The first milk that is produced when the baby first latches is usually fatty and once the breast drains, it becomes more thirst quenching, the cluster feeding that goes on can be tricky because until you get the "feel" of it, it can be hard to figure out how much the baby gets. Unlike a bottle there are no "inputs" to measure, only outputs, so if you are getting wet and soiled nappies and the baby is responsive and wakes for feeding you are probably doing fine, I hope you get an experienced and kind midwife and health visitor who can give you good detailed advice as to how the baby and you are getting on.

Interestingly, studies are finding that breastmilk composition is very dynamic, with milk responding to illness by increasing the white blood cells and producing antibodies to fight illness before the mother even knows the child is sick. We're also able to make milk in a different composition depending on the sex of the baby with higher calcium for girls and higher fat and proteins for boys. It also is different depending on the time of day, so if you pump in the morning, it is more full of hormones for daytime, whereas if you pump at night it will contain hormones that make an infant sleepy. Good luck and congratulations!

If you're lucky, you'll get a really boring baby that you can take to the pub! You put them in the carrier, they go to sleep and you get adult company. You can talk over them while they feed. They're basically potatoes until about 3 months

Thank you very much, great advice! And no offence taken at all - I’m very much an over thinker and have definitely noticed a spike in my ‘overthinking’ approaching 3rd trimester. It’s really good advice and I think I’ll try my best to take it as it comes and do what feels best.

@AmberBeaker has reminded me how emotionally hard it was to leave my babies at the beginning. I had assumed that they would sleep in a cot but when it came to it I co-slept, which turned out to be so much easier for feeding at night.
I never considered trialling bottles either. If it is an absolute emergency bf babies can drink milk from a cup, or they would feed from a bottle if they had to.

They say not to introduce a bottle or dummy in the first 6 weeks so they don't develop a preference for that. Pumping was all the rage in my baby group, but it looked complicated and hard work to me. Your body will produce exactly what the baby needs based on how much they want to go on your breast. Nearly everyone in my baby group had introduced formula by 12 months, most by 6 months. I think it was because of all the complicated pumping they were doing. I never saw the need for pumping myself. It looked too hard.

Edited to add.. breastfeeding always felt like a break to me, that wasn't the hard bit. It was permission to sit and do nothing but have a nice snuggle. We would do it after we'd been out to decompress. So you might not feel like you need a break from it.

You don’t know that your baby will accept a bottle (neither of mine did).
You don’t know whether your milk can be frozen (if you have high lipase it can’t be).
It’s fine to give ready made formula on odd occasions or to mix feed entirely, so that could also work for unexpected feeds when you aren’t there.