Can I INSIST on having a caesarian?? also how are caesarian op dates decided?!

[MissDelighted]

I am 5 weeks pg with DC1 and am due to see the doctor next week. I wondered if it is possible to insist on a caesarian (in a normal NHS hospital) or if it is down to the doctors/midwives/hospital/postcode. I am certain I do not want a natural birth and want to make this clear as early as possible to the medics.

I am so set on a caesarian birth I am prepared to use savings to go private as a last resort, although I don't wish to have to do this.

Also, for anyone who has had a Caesarian - do they perform them bang on your due date or is it down to the baby's development nearer the time, or even beds available on particular days? How is it decided?

I would really appreciate any info/advice prior to seeing the doctor as I want to make sure I am armed with enough information not to be swept away with what she thinks should happen. Thanks in advance

So actually we both have exactly the same opinion?

Sad thing is, I think the op has been scared off forever. I tried CATing her to tell her to come back and read these new constructive posts, but it said there was no such TalkUser. Five weeks pregnant, and now probably too scared to come back, so a wonderful resource (which has helped me a millionfold) is lost to her. To all those people who will shout that she should toughen up, well, I think she is entitled to be a tiny bit callow at 5wks with her first kid. I'm not saying people can't disagree, but there are gentler ways of framing it, of saying, well, this worked for me, I appreciate it may not work for you, but why not have a think about it.

some of you are horrible.

What a horrible and cruel thing some of you (and you know who you are -- at least you ought to) have done to this poster.

If you come back OP, chalk it up to thick skin training. You'll need it when you decide to breast feed / bottle feed or go back to work / stay home.

I'm nine weeks and can't even think past week 12 at the mo. Maybe the lady who started the thread might come back when she is a bit further gone, she might feel differently after the first scan.
I'm inclined to listen to the ladies who have already given birth, my sister had two caesarians and would love to have given birth naturally.

For those out there who are having sections (for any reason!) can I just pick up on the research referred to in the Sydney Morning Herald that a few people have quoted, saying that neonatal mortality is 2.5% higher for low risk planned caesareans than low risk vaginal births. This figure really shouldn?t be taken at face value.

I?ve had a look at the paper, and the unadjusted figure (which newspapers like to publish) is 2.34 times higher, but the adjusted figure, which takes into account things like congenital problems(which may have been a reason for the section) is lower, at 1.69 times an increased risk.

Also, to isolate ?low risk births?, the authors of the study used data from birth certificates, using those which stated that none of 16 specific risk factors had been reported and ?no medical risk factors? were indicated. They admitted that under reporting of individual medical factors and complications on birth certificates was a recognised problem though, so it was possible that the ?low risk? caesarean group was still a higher risk group, and that those risks could have led to the decision to have a caesarean and for the subsequent neonatal death.

I?m not saying that the study doesn?t indicate an increased risk, but it isn?t as cut and dry as newspapers like to imply.

Anyway, sorry for the waffle, it?s a bit late in the afternoon for my poor brain to work properly, I just didn?t want those who are waiting for their electives to be unduly worried.

Well, MY sister gave birth vaginally (I won't say 'naturally' because unless you are not giving birth in hospital or with any medical assistance whatsoever, it's not strictly accurate) and she begged me to have a caesarean as she had a bad experience. My Mum, on the other hand, gave birth to me at home with no pain relief, which was what she had wanted and she was v happy with it. Each to their own.

Ladythomson - you can give birth naturally in hospital, you know.

Natural does not mean without assistance. Just because there is a midwife there assisting, does not mean it is not natural. What an odd thing to say?

Not odd at all! Just TOTALLY HACKED OFF with all the judgemental rubbish that some people persist in spouting on here. If you say something is natural, by extension you are saying that to do otherwise is 'unnatural', which is pretty pejorative. Also, actually I was referring to a previous poster (which I think may have been on the too posh to push thread now I think back) who, having no urge to push, when criticised by the midwife who said "Don't you want to give birth naturally then?" replied "Well, ok, when you take off the drip, monitors, general paraphernalia I am hooked up to, yes I will be giving birth 'naturally'". Or something like that. Anyway, point is, I'm not dissing anyone's choices, but bored of people who are.

Apologies Ladythomson - you obviously have some issues with this subject.

Ho ho. Heavens, dirtysexymummy, I don't! Far from it. If you read the rest of this thread, and saw how some poor kid has got bounced off here and abused just for asking a question, you'd see that I fervently wish everyone precisely the birth they most desire - whatever it is. I am NOT judgemental about other people's choices...I simply wish that people wouldn't get so cross and nutty and when people don't go for exactly the same birth that they do. Why ladle out the guilt? It's a support network...not a kangaroo court.

Ho ho. Heavens, dirtysexymummy, I don't! Far from it. If you read the rest of this thread, and saw how some poor kid has got bounced off here and abused just for asking a question, you'd see that I fervently wish everyone precisely the birth they most desire - whatever it is. I am NOT judgemental about other people's choices...I simply wish that people wouldn't get so cross and nutty and when people don't go for exactly the same birth that they do. Why ladle out the guilt? It's a support network...not a kangaroo court.

I have followed this thread from the beginning.

I have seen a woman ask for opinion, and the way she came across was not great, TBH. Using words like insist and certain will provoke reaction in people. Personally, I thought the OP sounded very silly and misguided, misinformed and ignorant about not only her own 'problem', but in fact vaginal and c-sections in general.

MN is not the kind of place to pander to people, and if someone posts, they have to expect that not everyone will agree. And if they cannot handle that, then they should really think twice before posting.

FWIW - I agree that I think everyone should be able to have the kind of birth they desire. However, there is a way of requesting something, and thinking you know better than a hundred women who have already given birth, and medical experts does irritate.

Of course she is uninformed. It is her first child and she is 5 weeks pregnant. No one goes into this knowing everything. Maybe she was even a bit (unintentionally, I am sure, and only because she was tense and anxious, frightened and uninformed) highhanded. There is a VAST DIFFERENCE between putting forward a different point of view, and shouting and swearing at the poor girl because her view is not confluent with yours. Things can be pointed out more gently, without making people feel like utter shite. That's not pandering to people, dirtysexymummy; that's being tactful and humane. I have been on here all day, like a broken record, because I feel strongly about this. And if people were ganging up on someone who wanted a vaginal birth, I would do exactly the same.

I agree with DSM.

But she is not acting like she is uninformed. Do you understand what I mean?

Saying: 'I will insist on a c-section', and 'I am certain I do not want a natural birth' provoked people to ask why.

She then went on to say she thinks she is a 'funny shape', and is convinced that the 'birth would be a disaster'. She (irrationaly) is scared the baby will get trapped in the birth canal and suffocate.

She was then advised by many people who have been through a similar experience that she was being rather silly, and that her problems were just worries, not actual problems at all.

She responded with - 'It is amazing that some of you feel that you can shout down a newly pregnant woman who is genuinely worried. This is doing nothing for my health or my poor five week foetus' Which, for me, really took the biscuit.

She was completely unwilling to listen to the advice of people who do know what they are talking about, because she has effectively invented problems that do not exist. Being 'narrow' does not make a difference to childbirth, and I am not going to pretend it does to make someone feel better about a very silly idea.

But starlight - It did go that way, until she made the nonsense comment that people telling her she was making an uninformed decision, and a silly one at that was harming her 'poor five week foetus'.

I find it hard to continue sympathising with someone who will make a comment like that.

I was told that they tend to discuss the birth at around 36 weeks if you are thinking about having a c-section, unless obvious risk poses itself before.

I was also told by my MW that as it's patient choice they can't refuse to give you a C-section? I don't know whether this is the same in all health authorities. She told me to take DH as back-up and argue my case! I don't know whether this will be necessary as I have a high-risk pregnancy this time due to DD being HUGE, resulting in 3 days of labour with an emergency C-section at the end.

I agree that having a traumatic birth can really spoil things, as was my experience with DD. I know that I don't want to go through the possibility of that happening again. But this is your first time and it might not all go wrong. If you have worries, you certainly need to ask to see a consultant sooner than later. If you're not frightened of a vaginal birth, then it would be worth discussing your options; but if c-section is what you want then stick to your guns! Good luck, I hope this works out for you

I read this thread closely. Early on, she was not reassured, or gently persuaded. It was more a case of 'I've been there luv, you're being daft and if you don't immediately fall in with my brusquely expressed opinion, eff off." Yes, possibly she was being irrational in part, but anyone having the nouse to read between the lines could see that she was scared rigid! I've no doubt there were valid points hidden in some of those early posts but MAN some of those people should think twice about how they come across. They didn't want to help, some of them, they just wanted to jeer. Well, I deplore that attitude and wherever I see it, I am going to open my big, fat trap. And how do you know her problems were imagined? Have you seen inside her fanjo? Come on DSM, you're reasonable. She said that stuff about being shouted down after someone HAD literally shouted, and someone else had sworn at her (that latter post has been deleted by the moderators now, I am delighted to say). IF you think a poster is being a twit, why not raise an eyebrow to yourself and either ignore her, or gently suggest another way for her to look at things.

PLENTY of people discussed her fears with her kindly and rationally.

But it wasn't what the OP wanted to hear so she got arsey.

That's what happened.

only read the first page of this thread; I hope I haven't just repeated what other people have already said! Once again, I am foiled by my pregnancy brain!