should I complain about this? Not sure if I'm overreacting - advice please

[ToMoanOrNoTtoMoan]

I have name-changed for this because I have moaned about it to several RL friends and the circumstances are so specific...

I'm wondering whether to complain to my doctor's surgery about the fact that they've repeated failed to refer me to the hospital for my pregnancy.

The way it works round our way is that you see the doctor, they write a referral to the hospital of your choice, and the midwives at the hospital then contact you with a booking appointment and dating scan.

I saw the doctor at 7 weeks and asked to be referred to the hospital where I had my first baby.

By nearly 10 weeks I still hadn't heard anything from the hospital, so I rang the surgery, only to be told by a receptionist that this was completely standard and I wouldn't hear anything for several months as the first scan they offer is at 20 weeks.

I knew from my first pregnancy that this was rubbish - they offer a standard dating scan and an optional nuchal fold scan at 12 weeks.

She kind of shrugged and said it wasn't her problem, but that I could phone the hospital if I liked. She then gave me the wrong number.

After abotu 50 calls I tracked down the right department and established that they had not received my referral letter. The hospital said they couldn't set up the appointments without a referral and asked me to ask my doctors to send it again, which I did.

A week later I rang to check and found that they still hadn't received it. By this point I was 11 weeks and it was becoming urgent so they asked me to ask the doctor to fax the referral, which I did. I rang back later to find they STILL hadn't received it.

I then asked if I could self refer as I was desperate for at least a scan date, they said I could, and I faxed over a self-referral which they received and phoned back within the hour to confirm.

So all's well that ends well, but I can't help feelign very cross with the surgery - not least because if I'd been a first-timer I might have believed the receptionist about not hearing anything until 19 weeks. Should I complain?

Definately complain. That's shite.

And copy your local PCT in.

Yes, absolutely. Your GP surgery sound like a shower of twats tbh. How's their care of you been otherwise?

I would write a letter stating all the facts as you have written them here. It is bad service but sadly not very unusual.

The complaint will have to be kept on file so it could be useful in the future for improving their services.

Yes.

Yes, I'd complain to the practice manager.

oh good - I'm glad I'm not just being hormonal about this. My RL friends didn't seem to think it was worth bothering. But I can't help thinking that if this had happened to a young, not very clued up first-timer, she might have been hospitalised with pre-eclampsia before a fuss was made.

cyteen, that's the odd thing, they're usually fine, and I had no problems with DS, and don't know of any other friends in the area who've had this problem. So I am not sure if I've been incredibly unlucky in having THREE referrals go astray, or if they just didn't believe me and failed to resend at all. Or maybe they've just recruited the world's crappest receptionist!

In that case I'd mention that in your letter - that you are especially concerned about this lapse because in all other respects they do a good job. Puts you on the moral high ground , not that you need it of course.

Failure to refer really pisses me off, so I think it should always be picked up on. The number of people who have had to actively fight their GPs for necessary referrals is ridiculous, especially when you consider that (barring emergencies) your GP is generally supposed to be your point of entry into the healthcare system.

I don't know how old your elder Dc is, but I had quite a gap between my two Dc's and whereas I was referred and saw a booking MW really early in my Ds's pg, I too found it was left until I was 12 weeks before booking and had my scan at 14 weeks with Dd...I'm just saying that things do change and fairly quickly.
They changed it because so many people MC before 12 weeks and it then becomes a waste of money to have booked and scanned prior to then. I know this because I asked the booking MW at the time.

They could though, have explained that to you instead of iignoring you.

TMONTM was supposed to be having a 12 week scan, though, solo -- the GP practice just (a) didn't seem to know that and (b) still hadn't referred her to the hospital (to make a scan appointment) by 11 weeks.

The problem is you have no proof that the GP didn't send the referrals - and no proof that the hospital had received them and then lost/mislaid/didn't action them.

I would request a meeting with the practice manager and ask for clarification that referrals were made, you can ask to see proof. It's all done on the computer now so there should be a copy of the referral(s) on your computer records.

Then you will know for sure whether the problem lies with the GP surgery or the hospital

Then as Sidge says...

You don't have to bother with the GP, I never see one in pregnancy but write to the Supervisor of Midwives (you can usually get their name/contact from your trust's website) to request a community midewife & referral to the consultant of my choice (I need consultant care) & inform them I don't want the GP involved at all. The GP loves to act as 'gatekeeper' and get the hefty maternity payement for v. little work but they aren't experts in pregnancy & IME give shockingly bad advice.

Feel fo you,
My Gps repeatedly phoned me up to see if I would like to take my dd along to a mothers meeting for new mums.
My beautiful dd was stillborn, I reapetedly told them-do you think they could get it!

in the end it went like this.
ring ring
"Hello"
"Hello there, this is so and so from crappola gps, we are phoning to invite you and your new baby along to a mother coffee morning, will you be coming"
"no"
"oh really, whys that"
"My DD is dead"
"Oh right, sorry about that, are you ok"
"no, my DD is dead"
"Right ok well I'll make a note of it then"

make a note my arse.

iMum, that's awful I really feel for you, that's awful to have them repeatedly put you through that.

My problem was sort-of the other way round. I phone my GP's surgery to make my 16 week appointment and was told they were full up until I was 18 weeks. They suggested I call the duty MW to check there wasn't some reason to see me before, and in that case someone would see me at home.

So, I call the MW, she says no, 18 weeks is fine. She then asks how it's been going with the hospital. What hospital visit? Turns out she'd referred me due to my extreamly high blood pressure, for monitoring and the hospital hadn't picked up her referral. Half an hour later the hospital's on the phone saying they need to see me the next day, at the very latest!

All was well, luckily, but I've no idea how many visits I "missed"

iMum that's awful, I'm so sorry you were treated so insensitively

iMum how awful

ToMoanOrNoTtoMoan - I asked my GP to refer me to a specific consultant obstetrician because of probs in a previous pregnancy and I got to see the referral letter. Despite the fact I had given her a written explanation of why I needed the referral, she gave the wrong reason and so it took 15 weeks for them to give me an appt because they didn't know what was wrong with me

But yes you should definitely complain. BTW there is no legal requirement for you to contact your GP at all when pregnant - you CAN self refer. Telephone the hospital and ask to speak to the midwifery supervisor and explain, say you want to arrange care with the midwifery service. Oh and also contact your hospitals PALS service to ask what the protocol is in this situation because you will not be the only person getting fobbed off by reception staff who are trotting out the 'patients can't do that themselves' line.

Am wondering if you are in the same area as me! The von crapp surgery here told me initially not to book any appointment for a 12 week scan as it was done automatically for me once I'd told them I was pregnant. Waited and waited, nothing. Rang up and was stroppily told that I should have done it myself.

Have posted elsewhere with tale of self pitying woe about how the midwives don't have any appointments now until I'm around 26 weeks so I have to wait for 4 weeks to get the results of my 20-22 week scan.

Am anxious this pregnancy anyway foll having been given high risk of genetic abnormality and amnio.

Think will have baby in shed at bottom of garden at this rate.

imum, think you deserve to be sainted for not giving the surgery a total rocket for their ineptitude and insensitivity.

My god imum, you must be a saint. I think in your shoes I would buy a sonic rape alarm and play it down the phone every time they rang.

Solo, in my area they offer the nuchal fold scan which has to be done at 11-13 weeks. It is definitely their policy to scan at 12 weeks because of course if there's any haziness over dates doing it any later puts you outside that window. Plus I think there is now government guidance that all women should be seen before 12 weeks in order to receive counselling about the various tests on offer and diet and lifestyle choices.

Sidge, I know exactly what you are saying - and of course it might be all the hospital's fault (although they did receive my self-referral first time and called me straight back!). The thing I am mainly cross about is a) the assumption that it was my problem and I needed to chase it up personally / make all the calls etc, and b) their very confidently given assertion that I was wrong about needing a 12 week scan and that I wouldn't hear from anyone until 20 weeks.

Up until that point I was kind of irritated but accepted it might be just crap communications/ crap postal service or whatever. But at the point they started to tell me I was wrong and give out totally incorrect information, then I started to get cross. That's mainly what I want to complain about - they should have taken my concerns seriously and not just fobbed me off with a "wait 2 months and then call back".

btw thank you for all the responses!

I think I will write - not in an "outraged of tunbridge wells" kind of way, but just in a "look, this is what happened, can you review the information your receptionists give out because they are giving patients wrong information and aren't addressing concerns in a helpful way"

Ah, I see what you're saying. That is unacceptable and definitely needs addressing. The practice manager should be able to put a rocket under the backside of the receptionists.

Definitely complain - like you say, she'll do it again to some poor girl who is less clued up and who when she does finally get referred, will feel cheated that she missed out on all the early care.

There's nothign wrong with being "outraged of tunbridge wells", when you're dealing with authorities like this its often the only way to get them to take you seriously.

I would also complain to them - nag, nag, nag is the only way IMHO. I know it's slightly different, but I was fobbed off constantly by my local hospital when I didn't get my 12 week scan date through. "We're SO busy!" they said. In the end, I had it at 16 weeks which was obviously too late for NF etc. Still nice.

In the meantime, can you change surgeries?

iMum I am gobsmacked at your experience.

Ugh this sounds just like the experience I have had in this pregnancy. My last pregnancy ended when my son died at 22 weeks, after a meeting with my consultant he said as soon as I became pregnant again he needed to know ASAP due to me possibly needing medication. Well when I did become pregnant again I went to see my GP at 5 weeks who referred me to said consultant, weeks go by so I ring up to find out what's going on, and they say they never receive it so I ring GP who faxes it over again. Few more weeks go by without hearing anything so I ring again and yes, again they haven't received it apparently, cue another phone call to my GP who goes mental and rings them up to sort it out and I get an appt when I was around 12 weeks only to be told they wouldn't have booked me in before then anyway - needless to say when I did see my consultant I did complain to him and he apologised and things have been better since.

Oh and iMum your experience too makes me angry, I've heard of this happening too often. Although not as bad, I still get the midwives at my local hospital have a go and ask why I would want to give birth at the bigger hospital not with them without even opening my notes or spotting the stillbirth sticker on them to maybe give them a clue!

I knew I was going to be overseas between approx 11-13 weeks and so my GP wrote the hospital a letter giving them the exact dates when I was going to be away in Canada and asking for a nuchal scan / booking apptmnt with the midwife as soon as I got back.

Needless to say, the appointment - which arrived while I was away - was for the exact date the GP had told them I couldn't make. I know they got the letter 'cos I later saw it in my files.

Luckily I just knew this was going to happen and arranged for a private nuchal scan in Toronto (for $88 - approve 45 pounds - I might add...) so I didn't miss it.

I only just got to see a midwife last week for the first time - at 18 weeks.