Need some advice re breech baby

[Lazylou]

Hi. Just returned from GP AN check up (am 38+5) and it appears that the baby is breech. The heartbeat is really high up and as far as he could tell, the head isn't engaged either hence the breech diagnosis.

I am now really concerned. Having read on various sites about breech babies, it appears that the normal procedure now is to either try and turn him (which I've heard hurts like hell and can be dangerous) or a CS, but apparently the only time they will do a CS, unless an emergency is between 37 and 39 weeks to avoid labour starting beforehand.

GP told me I should have seen a midwife by now at the hospital, but MW has said as I am having shared care, it is ok for me to go to the GP. I wouldn't mind but he was head down last week .

This is my second baby and I know they don't usually engage as early as the first but the GP has really concerned me and I don't know what to do now. He said there would probably be no chance of me seeing a mw, even with a referral before the baby is born, so I have to go back to him next week unless I have had him by then.

What do you think is likely to happen? What should I do? My head is all muddled now and I can't really think straight so would appreciate any advice or suggestions.

i would ask for a MW or obs to check position of the baby, unless your GP is really skilled at palpating and determining foetal position

you can try moxibustion and pulsatilla to turn the baby, or ECV which you need doing ASAP

or a breech vaginal birth.

if that is what oyu want

search for posts by Tangle re breech birth.

what is it that you want to do if baby is breech?

I would ask for a scan with a consultant asap

someone told me their wife was breech both times and went swimming to turn baby

only worked once though

I don't know tbh. The options have never been discussed before with me. The GP asked what the hospital had suggested and that was when I told him I'd not seen a midwife since April.

Up until today, I thought everything was going well and the fact that I don't know what options are open to me is making me feel more panicky. The attitude of the maternity people has been very laid back until now, I was assured the baby would turn on his own so have not even thought of any of this stuff.

Sorry, that is a rubbish answer, but like I said, I don't know what the options are to be able to make any kind of clear, informed decision.

I think you need to find out asap whether definitely breech
which means a scan
then you can make decisions

well, it is your body, your baby and up to you ! is this a first baby>?

you can have an elective or go for a vaginal birth, talk to supervisor of midwives tomorrow, to discuss your birth options

Hi there lulumama has some good advice there's an article written by marycronk for AIMS here www.aims.org.uk/Journal/Vol17No1/handsOff.htm may be of interest.

No, second. First was pretty textbook. I think I am going to ring the mw now at the labour ward and try and put my mind at rest. Thanks all for your comments

if you had normal delivery first, then there is a good chance you can deliver a breech baby , as you know a baby can get through your pelvis.

make some calls tomorrow morning and let us know what happens,.

ds was breech and I had him by ecs at 37 weeks. Obviously, that is no longer an option for you, but I don't see why you can't still go for an ecs, just a later one.

I think you need to be seen by a midwife, and preferably have a scan asap.

If they do give you an ecs they will scan you right before the op to make sure that he hasn't turned at the last minute.

DD was breech. I had a head and a bum scan to confirm it (it was DH that diagnosed her the midwives had written she was engaged )

I was then scanned again to check there was enough amniotic fluid to attempt an ecv.

I had a failed ecv at 37 weeks (quite painful for me) and an elective section at 38+1.

Well I phoned the MW at the labour ward and explained what GP had said. She said it was "highly unlikely" that the baby would turn by himself now and so has told me to phone the ANC in the morning and demand that I be seen tomorrow.

Would it be regarded as an ECS now then? DH is quite worried about the whole thing, and tbh so am I but I think it is the not knowing that is worrying me more than anything. DH has got it into his head that something terrible is going to happen to me if I have a CS so I've been trying to reassure him that millions of women have this done all the time and it will be fine. I'm not actually frightened of having a CS. From what I've heard though I'm less excited about the prospect of them trying to move him which is what I think they will try and do tomorrow. Can I ask them not to? I don't want him getting distressed and I've heard that this can happen as well as the likellihood ofhim moving back to where he began.

I really appreciate these comments btw, just sorry my replies are a bit all over the place.

you do not have to have an ECV, if you do want one though, ask the person doing it their rate of success! you and your baby will be carefully monitored throughout the procedure

if you do have a c.s, then it is classed as a planned or elective c.s

the closer to term, the better for the baby in terms of breathing .

you can ask for a breech vaginal birth.

Thanks Lulu, got a bit mixed up there with the abbreviations. Is a vaginal breech birth dangerous? And don't some areas refuse to do them?

there are more risks than a head down birth, as the head is hte largest part of the baby, and the last bit to come out, rather than the first with a breech. also increased risk of cord prolapse IIRC.there are risks with a c.s too. you should discuss all these things with supervisor of MWs tomorrow. get the information to make an informed decision, your hospital should be able to delvier a breech. they ahve to if it is an undiagnosed breech ! www.aims.org.uk good for finding out your rights re birth

you cannot and should not be refused a vaginal brith if that is what you want.

have a google of mary cronk and breech births.

Thanks again, amm off to have a look at that now and will let you know how it goes tomorrow

Hi Lazylou. YOu sound exactly like I was when I found out that ds was breech. I had slightly more time to get my head round the idea (found out at 34 weeks, had him at 37) but I also didn't like the idea of the turny thing (ecvs?) for several reasons. I looked into everything possible to me at the time and decided that the cs was the best and safest option for me.

That said, I didn't have the collective power of mumsnet at the time, had I done so, I quite possibly may have given the turny thing a try. I certainly would have been able to research more about what was entailed, anecdotally or factually.

Fwiw, I recovered fine after my cs and had no major worries at all. I didn't feel particularly delicate afterwards (no more than when I had the girls, anyway) yet everyone rallied round more than with the others, because they thought I would be too weak/post op-ish to move

Hi Lazylou. I'd just like to set your mind at rest about ECV. My third baby was breech and i was also very concerned about the procedure as i'd heard that it hurt a lot. In my experience it wasn't painful at all and would happily do it again! i beleive the only real risk is that your waters might break in which case you'll be in the right place good luck with whatever you decide.

Hi ive just come back from drs at 38 and 2 and baby is now not breech but was at 37 weeks so they can still turn around. I decided not to do ecv or any other thing and baby turned herself, she still isnt engaged though so could turn i suppose at any time again.
Im just gonna let her be and see what happens in next few weeks.
Good luck with what ever you decide to do x

Thanks for your comments. I am still mulling over the options (which tbh, I'm not totally sure of until I speak to the MW tomorrow, so worrying unnecessarily right now) but I don't think I fancy this ECV thing at all. If my waters do go, I'll still have to travel an hour to the hospital where DS will be born as the one I am attending tomorrow doesn't deal with births (I'm not really sure what it does do, bar the odd clinic ).

I think I am more shocked than anything, and I know that sounds daft, but my first pg was so straightforward apart from all the imagined illnesses I had , I suppose I took it for granted that this time would be no different. Should have known better really, reading some of the stories on here about what can happen!

When I spoke to the MW tonight she said it was unlikely that he would turn on his own now, hence the rush for an appointment tomorrow. He was in the right position at last week's ante natal appt so I'm not sure what has made him turn again. I did wonder though because the bottom of my bump is not hard, compared to the rest of it. You can feel where it gets hard as you run your hands along it, the bottom of it is a bit wobbly lol.

Lazylou - I had DD, my first, as breech vaginal birth at home last April.

Re. the appointment tomorrow, I would guess that you will see a midwife who will palpate and scan to confirm position. If the baby is breech then they'll most likely send you off to see a consultant to discuss ECVs and CSs. If they do not have a delivery suite and operating theatre at the clinic tomorrow then I would downright refuse to let them attempt an ECV as, IIRC, the most serious (although unlikely) risk is that the baby will be distressed to the point it needs to be delivered by CS then and there.

As Lulu says, there are risks associated with any type of delivery - it's just trying to work out what set of risks you are most happy with. Before deciding on having a home birth, we did a lot of research and came to the conclusion that a vaginal breech birth is not dangerous as long as the midwives are experienced in vaginal breech birth. If your DC is still breech and you'd like to get a realistic sense of the options you might want to push hard for information from a MW, as a consultant will most likely push the CS solution (breech is a problem, don't you know ), or give you a very medicalised version of a vaginal breech delivery. If the MW you see can't answer, ask for an appointment with the Head of Midwifery. They will inevitably have to deliver breech babies that are undiagnosed - the question is HOW they do it.

Fingers crossed for tomorrow - lets hope your GP just isn't too good at palpation .

DD was breech. I had a consultant appt and scan at 36 weeks to establish that she was definitely breech, (I'd been saying it all along!). They decided not to attempt ECV due to the position that she was lying in, which was very awkward.

I had an elective cs at 38 weeks. It was the policy of my hospital not to attempt a vaginal birth for breech babies.

They even scanned me the morning of my cs to ensure she was still breech. She was. I was terrified about the cs, (eh Lulu ) but it was fine.

Whatever you choose, all will be great, I'm sure.

Well, I was seen today at the ANC (but not without a fight. MW checked all the usual things, blood pressure, urine etc and then I had to wait and see the consultant. He had a feel of the baby and said he was pretty sure that DS was in the correct position but would do a scan just to make sure. Sure enough, when he did the scan DS is head down and 2/5 engaged! I was totally relieved and it must have shown because the consultant kept asking me if I was pleased.

He did say he could understand why the GP might have been led to believe that DS was breech; apparently his bottom is sticking out so much it could have been mistaken for the head so now it is just a waiting game as to when I go into labour. Is it possible for labour to begin at this stage, even though the head is not 5/5 engaged?

I just want to say that I am really grateful for the advice and support from you all yesterday, you really put my mind at rest about all the possible things that could happen and I went to that appointment today feeling (fairly) confident about what I wanted and the questions I wanted to ask. So thank you to all for sharing your stories and experience.

thats great news, best of luck with your labour