Awful birth ‘options’ meeting

[Padronpeppersplease]

I’ve just had my 28 week birth options meeting with a midwife and wondering if anyone else has had a similarly pushy experience. She asked me about whether I intended to breast or bottle feed and also what I’m planning for the birth. I said I was 99% sure I wanted to exclusively bottle feed and then also that I was considering an elective c section. I’d heard previously that the NHS try and push both breastfeeding & natural births but I was not prepared for how pushy this midwife was! She said to me that bottle feeding was ‘way worse for baby’ and that ‘a c section was a million times harder on my body’ than a natural birth would be. According to her as my body is built for birth I don’t need to worry about the pain of natural labour and tears during labour aren’t anywhere near as bad as the potential complications of a c section, she also said that opting for a c section would limit the number of children I could have. Despite all this I’m still leaning towards a c section, I’m under no impression that it’s easy recovery & without risks but I honestly feel now like I’m doing something totally outlandish by opting for it.

This kind of thing really winds me up. The stuff about mothers having fewer complications with vaginal births is nonsense. The stats have all already been quoted by PPs so I won't repeat again. Anecdotally across my friends I must have heard over 50 birth stories in the last 10 years. Without fail the worst ones have all been related to vaginal births, both in terms of the birth itself and the long term complications.

I have a close friend who had an elective C-section 4 months ago and she's so pleased with her decision. She was so relaxed about the whole thing as she knew exactly what was coming. Her husband has taken a good chunk of paternity leave and they are sharing the night feeds as they're bottle feeding. I've never seen more relaxed and happy parents to a newborn.

You know what's right for you, ignore the pushy midwives.

Nature isn’t best - it’s just nature. Dogs dirt and death are both natural and we do all we can to avoid both! Science and civilisation every time for me and accurate individualised risk assessment.

I wasn’t scaremongering. I was pointing out what happened and that mothers need to look at recommendations based on general population norms with a pinch of salt - adjustments are needed for individual circumstances.

Its not scaremongering to say that women over thirty who are very negative about natural childbirth, lack trust in midwives ( who they’ve usually never met before and who, as a profession, have been featured in thr press as overworked, underpaid and on occasion wedded to a personal political perspective as to how women in their charge should give birth) and who want maximum pain relief etc are possibly unlikely to have an uncomplicated natural birth and come through mentally or physically unscathed.

She's ignorant about statistics at the very least. There are differences in outcomes but they're averages at the population level and not that big.

There is a fair bit of ideology though and you gave the "wrong" answers.

Do your research but don't expect to be thanked for it. Many NHS staff (not all) don't actually want patients to be well informed on pros and cons in my experience!

When I was pregnant I asked once (politely) why I needed to have the same test a third time in a week and they wrote in the notes that I was difficult!

Hi OP, I understand the midwife has a duty to make you aware of all choices but it sounds like your opinions were dismissed.

For what it's worth, I didn't want to breast feed and told my midwife that from the outset. She was lovely and made no judgement. However, my friends who were undecided were heavily pressured to breast feed. I think if it's conveyed as a possibility they'll really promote it.

I wasn't afraid of actual child birth but was afraid of being left with injuries afterwards. As it happened, I had an emergency c section. I was driving within 2 weeks and my scar healed with no issues. I had a friend who had a vaginal birth shortly after me and had significant complications for many months after. Others here will tell you stories of the opposite.

All this is to say that you should do what is best for you. There's risks either way and no one has a crystal ball.

Your midwife does have to tell you about the risks and why different options are better, but she shouldn't make you feel pressured!

You will have your own reasons for wanting a C-Section - but thought you may like to hear my birth stories - two natural births, gas and air only and not a single stitch with either of them! Both labours were about 15 hours.

My recovery time was super quick - especially compared to my appendectomy done a few years later (and that was just keyhole surgery!).

Depending on your reasons for wanting a section - if its because of fear and horror stories, it may be worth seeking out some positive natural birth stories!

But either way, it is your choice.

Re: Bottle vs breast - DD1 was formula fed - tried to bf to start with, but there was very little support so within a day she was on a bottle. I breast fed DD2 - I'd researched it more and my SIL had qualified as a HV by then, so I had better support and managed to feed her until she was two.

Without any comment or judgement on which is better for baby, I can tell you that breast feeding was a million times easier for me (after the initial few days)!

I could leave the house with a nappy and some wipes shoved in my bag, or on some occasions in my coat pocket, didn't have to think about finding somewhere to warm up water or milk or lug around flasks of water, didn't have to stop and find somewhere to feed (had her in a sling and we fed on the move - much to the shock of a couple of women who decided to peek into the sling while walking round an exhibition!). Also, so much easier in the night! Even though DH couldn't do the night feeds like with DD1, I still somehow got more sleep in the early days!

So, I would highly recommend at least trying to BF just for convenience if nothing else!

Yes! I recovered much better after my emergency c-section when I had decent support and I was mainly sat on the does a breastfeeding and looking after the baby. After my elective c-section when I had a baby in nicu and I was sterilizing bottles etc the pain was so much worse and the recovery was longer.

What fantastic data.

Less often than you find yourself incapable of a sensible discussion I imagine.

Scheduled c-section
snd
emergency c-section

are entirely different situations & outcomes. Emergency is fine turn there’s a problem, and if it’s during Labour there is so much more stress on mum & baby.

scheduled c-section recovery not so bad and would venture to say not as bad as bad tears which have been sewn with dozens of stitches and the recovery from that and the risk to baby during difficult delivery

I bottle feed and also had an elective c-section with my last pregnancy. No regrets.

P.S if you get a perfect prep for the bedroom as well as the kitchen, it makes night feeds a breeze.

Hi OP, I know you weren’t asking for advice on your choices, and I know I’m only one example, but just wanted to say that I had an elective section for my first (high risk pregnancy) and a VBAC for my second and the c-section recovery was way less painful (aside from not being able to drive for a few weeks). I also bottle fed one and breast fed the other, bonded wonderfully with both and no one would be able to tell which one was breast fed or bottle fed now they are older. The most important thing is your baby has a happy mum, so stick to your guns on your choices if it’s what you want.

Well, putting out your opinion as fact won't often lead to genuine discussion. What you stated is scientifically and statistically false (no matter what you may believe)

I couldn’t breastfeed. Not wouldn’t; couldn’t.

Whilst I bottlefed on the NICU unit one lunchtime, a NICU nurse gave me a long lecture about how by bottle feeding I wouldn’t have nearly as good a relationship with my baby as she had with her two breastfed babies. Thanks.

How does she know you're built to give birth? That's quite a statement. She knows for a fact your pelvis is perfectly sized for the head of the baby inside you? And she knows your body is going to ensure the baby is at the right angle?

I'm impressed, that's not midwifery, that's witchcraft.

Breastfeeding is better than formula, that cannot be argued with. Endless benefits for baby, health benefits for mum too - scientific facts that cannot be argued with. Same with vaginal birth - literally what our bodies were meant to do.
The problem I see is that women’s health, specifically maternal health (including maternal mental health) is so far down the list of priorities that there is absolutely nowhere near enough focus on giving mums throughout pregnancy, birth and postpartum the space and support they need to do the things we were built to do. If more women were given better education on what happens to their bodies during birth, if there was less fear and scaremongering around birth itself (I read on here only yesterday someone describe birth in general as “highly dangerous and life threatening”), how best to prepare your mind and body for birth, if women were given support, time, resource and education around breastfeeding and if women weren’t expected to go through all these things and then just get on with it like everything else we’re meant to do, more women would feel empowered to make choices to breastfeed and have a vaginal birth. No support, then chastised in one way or another for whatever decision we end up making, often by other women. It’s so sad, and so exhausting.

Emily Oster is great but she’s not a doctor/scientist. This means she doesn’t always understand the subject at hand very well. Vaginal tears aren’t pleasant (I’ve had three!) but the vast majority heal with no problems. Obviously most c-section wounds heal well too, while a few become infected or cause other problems.

I would never choose a section because each time I gave birth I was up and about within minutes. I was pain free by the following day. What I would always recommend is an epidural if you can get one :)

It's not about being "pushy" ( although obviously she might have been) but it's about letting you know the facts .

But it is within the variables relevant to OP(no matter what you may believe).

The Emily Oster book "Expecting Better" (2013) is evidence based. American though and of course their system is different.

I think midwives have a duty to talk through the options and I imagine it is the NHS stance to promote breast feeding & vaginal births but I think some midwives can be a bit pushy.
I wouldn't worry about it though, just take her attitude with a pinch of salt, you don't need her permission to make your decision - I found the health visitors far far worse in that regard so it'll be good to have this experience under your belt!

This.

This thread brings out the absolute worst in Mumsnet

The US system is different, but women and babies are not

All else being equal Brest milk is better for babies as is a natural birth - these are measurable facts - the midwife would be negligent if she didn't make this perfectly clear

Of course they "push" the healthier options - they are medics , it's their job

Yes sometimes these can't happen but I would not think much of a mother who actively chooses the less good options for no sound reason

I think what she means is that we have evolved to deliver babies. No need to be deliberately obtuse.

It still makes me laugh darkly how much the midwives approach changed between the run into my first and second births. I was pushed hard into a 'natural' birth the first time, which ended after 18 hours of horrific labour with an emergency C section and my baby in NICU. Second time round, they know perfectly well that you know full fucking well that comparing the delights of an elective C section to the utter fucking shitshow of natural birth is like comparing modern dental surgery to some drunk with a pair of pliers coming at you in 1243.