Awful birth ‘options’ meeting

[Padronpeppersplease]

I’ve just had my 28 week birth options meeting with a midwife and wondering if anyone else has had a similarly pushy experience. She asked me about whether I intended to breast or bottle feed and also what I’m planning for the birth. I said I was 99% sure I wanted to exclusively bottle feed and then also that I was considering an elective c section. I’d heard previously that the NHS try and push both breastfeeding & natural births but I was not prepared for how pushy this midwife was! She said to me that bottle feeding was ‘way worse for baby’ and that ‘a c section was a million times harder on my body’ than a natural birth would be. According to her as my body is built for birth I don’t need to worry about the pain of natural labour and tears during labour aren’t anywhere near as bad as the potential complications of a c section, she also said that opting for a c section would limit the number of children I could have. Despite all this I’m still leaning towards a c section, I’m under no impression that it’s easy recovery & without risks but I honestly feel now like I’m doing something totally outlandish by opting for it.

I had terrible trouble getting anyone to agree to a planned section for my second, despite having had an emergency section with my first, so I’m not surprised you’re being met with resistance OP. I found it a case of keeping asking different people until someone agreed. It was pretty soul destroying.

Neither the planned or emergency were great experiences tbh. I lost 2 litres of blood in the planned which was pretty scary. I still think it was the right decision though.

There’s ongoing scientific research looking at societies where allergies, diabetes, autoimmune diseases etc are on the rise and where CDs are on the rise.

The research is looking into the microbial benefits of going through the birth canal and also taking into account breastfeeding rates which might also be affecting gut bacteria.

This doesn’t mean CDs should be stopped but there are strong signs that rising CDs in a society and lower breastfeeding rates affect the overall well being of the population.

Some scientists are working on ways to replicate or transfer the microbial flora from the mother for CD births but that research is still in the early stages.

My friend bottle fed from day 1
She had to be back at work at 4 weeks and riding horses and needed to be able to give baby to someone else to feed as well as nursery from 8 weeks
Midwife didn't seem very happy but she did the same with her second too

Just an FYI, 3 kids and I've tried feeding different ways.
There's this stupid "aren't you brilliant for breastfeeding" culture. Errr nope I'm not brilliant. I'm lazy. I'm a cheapskate.

I find breastfeeding the "easier" option. No bottles to sterilise, teats of different types and sizes to try, don't have to take stuff out with you, cheaper, no stress that all the local supermarkets have taken the only formula your child takes off the shelves because of repackaging and driving 20 miles to find it etc. Just adding a different side here as I breastfed very easily. Yes, I've done bottle feeding and it was a PITA and breastfeeding was a doddle.

Choose whichever option you like for sure. I just wanted to offer another side (no punn intended). People who breastfeed easily are sometimes embarrassed to say how easy it is, as don't like to appear smug or sanctimonious In this day and age. Partly why I've tried to make my post moderately humorous? Probably still come across like a school-gate alpha mum because of the topic.

Anyways. Good luck!

I had an elective section after DD was discovered to be breech and was very relieved!

As you've already found out, the midwifery establishment still loves to push out incorrect and biased information about c sections and natural births. Personally I think it's partly job protection but also some internalised misogyny from the midwife's too.

The consultants who offered me a c section were both male and female and neither felt the need to push me into a decision either way. I read up on the facts. Elective c sections are in fact safer than vaginal births but unfortunately the stats on c sections are mixed with emergency so as to dramatically skew the results.

In short. Smooth, pain free birth with minimal recovery. Given the noises I heard from the poor women being forced into a "natural" birth I would say I was very lucky. DD had no issues whatsoever.

I also bottle-fed exclusively. I'm sure some people would consider me to be the devil.

OP, it's your right to make an informed choice.

Just calmly tell them you have read the NICE guidelines, which state mothers can elect for a C-section. Advise them you have capacity as an adult under the mental capacity act, and that you can weigh up the risks of both. If you have a consultant who refuses, request another one. They can't refuse. They can only give you the information.

Also, breastfeeding is not without issues. Cluster feeding is hard. It's not as easy as midwives take out. It's tricky as a new mum, especially when you tired and if you've had a section or traumatic delivery.

A lot of normal births end in intervention. Normal birth has plenty of risks too.

I chose a section as the risks are known and predictable. Recovery is better compared to an emergency section. I found recovery easy. The worst part was honestly gas. I could lift baby no issue. I kept on top of pain relief and was fine. It was a very calm experience, I'd slept well the night before, I played music. Baby was out in 15 mins and I was watching her happily as I got sewed up.

I loved my section. I personally wanted to minimise the risk of pelvic floor injuries/tears etc, didn't want to labour for 3 days, and didn't want a ton of interventions or traumatic birth.

There are some militant midwives out there. I know a pediatric consultant and anaesthetist who have/will opt for sections due to what they’ve seen at work. I’ve had an emergency section and then one planned. Quite honestly having heard many horror stories from “natural” births I wasn’t too disappointed with the outcome of my first! And breastfeeding is great if it works for everyone but don’t beat yourself up if you don’t get on with it. The convenience is handy (no washing bottles and carting it around with you) but if they’ll accept a bottle you won’t be tied to them constantly.

They have to tell you about the risks of surgery and the benefits of breastfeeding. You’re within your rights to say thanks but this is my decision. Your body & your baby so it’s up to you.

Because we're all allowed to share our thoughts and opinions. Your question isn't especially helpful.

@Padronpeppersplease I've had two ELCS and didn't breastfeed my eldest (she had some expressed colostrum and milk for the first 6 weeks, and I had no intention of breastfeeding my second until I was a bit desperate on postnatal as the midwives had locked away our milk and DH couldn't find the one with the key).

My community midwives were good, but I was very distressed with my first and asked strongly for an ELCS from the booking in appointment. I did a lot of research, which is complicated by ELCS and EMCS being thrown in together, but I was comfortable that I could accept the risks of a CS whereas there were risks of VB that I could not accept, i.e. faecal incontinence.

I had to see the consultant midwife at the hospital, and found her to be dismissive, condescending and frankly plain rude. Fortunately I felt so strongly I just would not allow her to fob me off (after an hour of me rebutting everything she said, which was not a balanced discussion at all - she refused point blank to discuss the merits of CSs or the negatives of VB, so utterly failing to allow the patient to make an informed decision, thank God for me doing my own extensive research - she attempted to send me off as agreeing to try for a VB! I was flabbergasted as had given NO such indication that I had changed my mind throughout) and did not leave the room until I had an appointment to see a lovely consultant.

I realise lots of people here cannot understand why someone would have surgery. I equally cannot understand why someone would choose a VB, but would never dream of trying to persuade anyone to my POV. I just hope everyone gets, as far as possible, the safe birth they are hoping for. Ditto breastfeeding - if it is easy and doesn't cause the mother issues (mental or physical), it is wonderful. However if you don't want to do it, or you can't, or the baby isn't thriving, there is an alternative that means you and the baby are safe and well and bonding. I recall my GP at my postnatal check up admitting, on being told I was formula feeding, that she duly breastfed her recent baby til 6 months because of the science, but she hated every minute, resented her baby when he cried and couldn't wait to swap to formula. I find that so sad so such little utlimate "gain".

You have to be pushy, don't be ashamed of doing what is best for you.

It is completely your choice.

I chose to have cesarean sections. I knew I only wanted two children.

I had seen female family members and friends go through all sorts, tears, disabled and incontinent for life after vaginal births.

A lot of them ended up on their own, desperate for busy midwives attention and one felt their baby suffered from complications that wouldn't have arisen had medical staff been in the room actively monitoring the mum.

So that compared to being in a lovely calm room, with consultants and many other medical professionals all there, ready and waiting just for you and your baby?

It was a no brainer for me.

I also was driving again in under two weeks and recovered months before some of my poor friends did from vaginal births gone wrong.

I did breastfeed though, it really is the best if you can manage it, but again your choice.

I also maintain that if it were men having the babies, cesarean sections would be the normal method of delivering children, no way they'd be left to go through something so barbaric and dangerous.

Yup. You can have one if you just want one. You don’t need any additional justification. NICE guidance.

Having had a very easy, quick vaginal birth with only gas & air as pain relief, I think you should definitely keep an open mind and not fixate on wanting abdominal surgery instead of something that could actually be not as bad as you think.

Agree I had a third degree tear and was stitched up terribly
However
A c section has far more complex complications including organ damage for example.
A health professional must advice on these so the birth mother makes a well informed choice

Until something happens if I listened to the midwife when I was giving my son would have died. I reckon I was over 42 weeks pregnant the umbilical cord was soft I was very lucky to bring him home. The midwife said to me I should not have gone for an assisted birth after I told her that the consultant was setting up the theatre for me to have an assisted birth. Was she blind he weren't coming out there is only one way I can push. You know what the consultant said to me the next day after I had given birth I made the right choice my son could have died.

You don't hear of midwife's talking about breast cancer and asking about family history while talking about breastfeeding.

I do see a lot wrong when a midwife pushes a mother into doing something that could be life changing and not in a good way.

I totally agree with you. Formula is a great option.

I exclusively formula fed my three right from day one because I wanted to. They thrived. Two were highly academic and obtained top degrees from top universities.

I've had both vaginal and caesarean deliveries and I can honestly say that I wish all three had been born by caesarean. It was far and away the better of them.

Stick to your guns OP. Your midwife was wrong and should not have been judging you in that way. She is there to provide and explain the options and ensure you are making an informed choice, being aware of all the pros and cons etc.

As for the "your body knows how to give birth" mantra, that was bullshit as far as I was concerned. Mine certainly didn't and there were significant complications in all of my deliveries.

I had three easy births with gas and air but because of how easy I birthed before they assumed it would be easy with the fourth birth. I think women should be more informed in case anything happens on the day so they know their rights and what they can ask for. Luckily the nurse from the GP surgery told me I would have a difficult birth and she wasn't wrong.

I don't see anything wrong either

For me, recovering from a C section was an absolute breeze compared to a vaginal delivery. If they'd put a zip in, I'd have had more children.

As for feeding, pooh to breast or bottle - a fed baby is all that matters.

I've done both and agree that I prefer breastfeeding. You hold baby and look into their eyes too, you know.

Formula is good but you can't compare the 2

The midwife is evidently a fuckwit, if she's going to make wild and stupid generalisations like a CS will be a million times harder on you than a VB. Just continue as planned, and elect the section if that's what you prefer. There are risks and benefits to both approaches, hence the NICE guidance on the issue, and it's for you to decide which ones are more important to you.

My thought here is just that if you are set on four kids (you mention your sister) then four C-sections is really unusual, and a natural birth after a C-section can be riskier too, so you may be adding a barrier in there.

No one can guarantee the outcome of a birth. Some women have one vaginal birth and experience complications that mean they never want to do it again, so there's no 100% either way, but there are real risks to repeated C sections.

In my experience they will let you have the CS but they aren’t going to make you feel good about it.

I had one for breech and I still got bad vibes from them. Whatever!