Dilated Kidney tubes, baby on anti-biotics as soon as born?!

[chaoskay]

We found out at our 20 week scan that our baby had dilated tubes (not sure of the correct term), only by 1mm, and the consultant didn't seem too concerned. They said that it is very common in boys (we don't know what sex the baby is), and that it could simply be that the baby hadn't had a wee at the time of the scan, so the problem could sort itself out.

They explained at the time that the baby will have to have a scan when it is born, and that it will need another one a couple of weeks after to make sure that it is ok. But I found out yesterday that the baby will also have to immediately start a course of anti-biotics as a preventative measure, in case there is any infection.

Surely they should see if there is an infection and then treat it? I just kind of nodded and agreed with the mid-wife when I was talking to her, and it is only since I've felt a bit indignant about it really. In this day and age, I thought that they were trying to avoid prescribing anti-biotics all the time.

If the baby is scanned straight after birth, you'd think they'd know if it needed this treatment or not. It just seems a bit over the top. I just don't like the thought of pumping my little baby full of drugs unnecessarily.

I think I'll ask my midwife about this when I see her on Monday. I was just wondering if anyone else has any experience of this?

Hi - my ds2 had dilated tubes (just above the upper end of normal) and had the scans you mention. The tests came back clear - the measurement was back just within normal limits by the time he was born. He did have the antib's as his scan wasn't until he was a couple of weeks old. They are a low dose (prophylaxis) aimed at preventing infection which can cause scarring even if treated immediately. It is normal practice.

dd had repeated UTI's (again all the tests came back clear) but she remained on the low dose anti-bs for a couple of years in an attempt to prevent further damage. The drug prescribed is usually Trimethoprim.

Hope everything turns out OK for your baby too.

Hi

We had this with our DS, again it was picked up in a scan and like you we were rather nervous about it and what it would mean after birth.

Our DS was given the anti-b's for a short while after. We weren't offered a scan straight after birth but one a few weeks after.

He was given the all clear after seeing the consultant and is now a healthy 19month old.

I can understand you're feelings about giving you're new baby anti-b's but make sure you speak to you're midwife/health visitor about it to be reassured.

HTH and oh and good luck, enjoy you're new baby

xxx

Hi. I have just had this.

At 20 weeks kidney fluid was 7.8mm and a rescan at 32 weeks showed it had increased to 13.8mm

He will not be started on Anti-B's straight away but we will see a consultant at about 5 weeks who will probably prescribe them then and if the follow up scans show it has resolved they will take him off them

Have they not offered you a later scan to see if it has resolved??? Normally it is done at 32weeks

No further scans, just 12 weeks and 20 weeks.

I'll speak to the m/w and clarify it with her on monday.

I just don't want my baby unnecesarily messed about with. Mind you, they only want the best for them don't they.

I'm glad all your babies mentioned above were ok by the way. It is reassuring. Thanks

my eldest had this too, his tubes were also a tiny bit too big and he was prescribed antibiotics at birth, tiny amount, one ml? or something to have once a day, i didnt like it but it was only for a few weeks until he was scanned and given the all clear and the idea is as someone has said to protect the kidneys so they dont get damaged.

incidentally i did get another scan during the pregnancy at 30something weeks, 32 or 36 maybe, and this was specifically to have a look at his kidneys, check with your midwife and good luck xxxxx

btw i completely freaked when they told me the news at my 20wk scan, i actually got in touch with the british kidney association who were fantastic, provided me with more info than midwife/gp could etc and even sent baby a teddy when he was born

oh and he is now a strapping 8 year old and has never had a uti or any problems at all, turned out that he just needed to have a wee when they scanned him, which he did, all over the sonographer

You sound like me last july, its so horrible being told there is something 'wrong' halfway through your pg (I cried and cried) so big hugs for you but everything will work out fine

The condition my ds has is hydronephrosis which is dilated kidney and a blockage in the tubes, not the tube itself, but it sounds simliar, we were sent off to a specialist after the 20w scan and i was rescanned regularly as the dilation grew... For many cases it does clear up after birth but in the case of ds it unfortunately hasn't (don't want to scare you though) We have follow up stuff that's still ongoing but I feel more and more confident about everything...

As for the trimethoprim anti-bios, well I have to admit that i didn't give them to him straight away as i was convinced that the ultra sound post-birth was going to show it had cleared up on its own, the midwives were very supportive of this decision and i got the impression that they were in 2 minds as to whether it was a good idea at all. I HATE and still hate the thought of giving ds his daily dose but after it became clear that it wasn't clearing up on its own I changed my mind. There's a thread i posted about it here www.mumsnet.com/Talk/138/459479?o=1206798207426 As you can tell i was in a bit of a flap but it all worked out ok Look for the link to ordering pro-biotics for babies given to me from Lennygrrl, I've been giving them to ds alongside the Ab's.

Sorry, that's a bit of a ramble HTH

MY ds had anti bio from birth, (now 12) he only has one functioning kidney, found at 29 wk scan as well. Please dont panik over the anti bio they are very low doses. Oh sorry just read a bit more XX

We had no kidney problems but they made my daughter have antibiotics straight after birth in case of infection (in my case as my waters had broken early). I just blindly did as I was told (as I was told there and then) and only questioned it after as there was absolutely no evidence this was necessary (I am sure it wasn't and the paeds said as much). But she is now nearly 2 and in excellent health, barely a cold this winter, so it does not seem to have affected her immune system so far. Just thought this may be some reassurance if they do push you for the antibiotics, but good luck with whatever you decide.

My eldest did aswell Slinkie. It was nasty they whisked her off as soon as she was born and stuck needles in her hand 3 of four times before they found a vein. She had anti-b's through the hand 3 times a day for a week (cause they lost her results) only to find there was no infection in the first place

Your post just reminded me of the trauma of just giving birth and having to go to the special unit for injections and seeing all the prem babies fighting for their lives and me just sobbing uncontrollably - the MW telling me to sort it out cause it's just an injection.
Luckily this time if baby has anti-b's it will be nothing like that

My 20 wk scan showed that my dd2 had hydronephrosis and had scans at regular intervals until she was born naturally.She had a scan at 5 days old and has been on anti b's for 23 mths now.

This is not meant to be a scare story but a happy one. The problem never got better and she had 2 UTI's which ended in a week long hospital stay each time. She was as happy and normal as anything during this time. ANYWAY. She ended up needing surgery to remove the dilated ureter and part of her kidney and 2 hours after the op was running up and down the childrens ward like a nutter!

She is now absolutely fine and although it feels like the end of the world when you are told that your baby has this there are treatments and cures.

Without those antibiotics my dd could have been so much worse and the dose is so tiny (it was 0.8ml!!!) when she was younger.

There should also be a specialist obstetrician in hospitals that deals with this so it may be helpful to be referred to them.

my 20 wk scan also showed a slightly
dilated renal tube but they rescanned me at 32 weeks and the measurement was normal, so baby does not need treatment when born. I think you need to query about a repeat scan especially if measurement was only just out of normal range as antibiotics might not be needed.

I have that as well. They diagnosed something to do with DS kidneys at the 20 weeks scan and are suppose to have another one at 32 weeks. Thanks for the thread though as it gives me some information. I haven't been told anything by the hospital apart from "there is a problem with dilated kidneys". Do you guys know how "serious" the problem would be? Would DS need continuous treatment or something. Woud that mean I can't have a homebirth?

Any ideas would help as I have not been told anything

Hi my baby had dilated renal pelvis on the left kidney, identified at 20 and 32 weeks. I was told that a dilated kidney by itself can be an indicator that there is kidney reflux, i.e. urine is washing back up the tubes, or there may be a blockage in the kidney which would be slightly more serious and may later require an operation to remove. A possible early consequence of either of these would be urine infections hence the antibiotics from birth.

However I was also told that there can also be absolutely nothing wrong. My son's kidney was still slightly dilated when 6 weeks old so they did another test which showed no reflux and no blockage. We were able to stop antibiotics and he's never had a urine infection. I hope everything goes as well with your babies.

Needahand. I have been told it will be fine to continue with my homebirth plans

The consultant will not need to see baby straight awy and they will make a normal appointment for up to 8 weeks after birth.

Also I have been told that this babys measurements are quite high (13.8mm compared to the right kidney of 7.8mm which is also dialated)

They have told me it is likely to be reflux and will just require anti-B's until it goes away. They said a VERY SMALL percentage compared with how common it is need what DITDOT DC had.

I would def check about rescan though as at 20 weeks they told me baby probably just needed a wee. It is only because my 32 week scan is increased that they have told me a bit more about it. Even now they said by time they scan baby after birth it might of cleared or it could take a few months. They said no-one really knows why it happens unless they find a blockage but most of the time there is no apparant reason and it simpy sorts itself out.

Yep, just to confirm, they've said that this problem doesn't affect my decision to have a home birth. I'm continuing with mine and they've said it's fine. We just need to take new baby to hospital asap after birth for a check up and for anti-biotics.

Glad to hear it chaoskay Now enjoy the rest of your pregnancy like i did, I'm sure everything will work out great!

I shall do my best! Thank you.

Thanks chaoskay and horseshoe glad to hear you can carry on with the HB plans. I think I will see what the 32 weeks scan says (4 weeks to wait) and if the measurement has gone worse I will ask a lot of questions. I think it is a bit mean of them to tell you there is a problem but not tell you what the consequences are. If it had been my first baby I would have been beside myself with worry!

Ok .....Just to let you know I am now getting conflicting advice.

been advised AGAINST HB today as been told hospital need to moniter how soon after birth baby wees. This is combined with big baby and anemia but mainly the kidney thing. Im still waiting for my appointment with the peaditrician (sp?) but will let you know

Hi my baby had dilated kidneys at his 20 wk scan. We had to go back at 30 wks where they had gone down somewhat. He was checked over by the peadiatrician when he was born who said he was fine but then the mw came round and said we had to give him anti-biotics twice a day for 6 wks! I wasn't too happy about this as it seemed just a precautionary measure. I was really struggling with the breastfeeding, it was really painful, my mw told me that the anti-biotics may have caused thrush which affected the bf! So then we had to have creams for that. We ended up chucking the anti-biotics in the bin after that. Lo was scanned a few wks after birth and given the all clear and then again a few wks later.

Oh fingers crossed horseshoe I hope you get your HB. How many weeks are you?

Does anyone know what the worse problem could be re kidney? Could baby need an operation?

alishanty didn't know AB could give you oral thrush but will definitely keep that at the back of my mind as I am planning to BF

Chaoskay - I would advise you to take the abs after birth, it really is just a precautionary measure until baby is scanned. At least they have found this at scan and can investigate it.

My dd now 9 has major bladder and kidney abnormalities and has had some fairly major surgery to correct this (still ongoing) and this is despite a detailed anomaly scan at 20 weeks, where it was not picked up. She has been on multiple antibiotics and high dose cranberry most of her life since she started getting UTIs at age 2, and she is probably the healthiest in the whole family as regards shaking off colds and illnesses etc. Also the tallest in her class at school, so I dont think the abs have done her any harm. If we had known she had the dilated ureters and other things that she has, antibiotics may have saved her from some of the early UTIs which have undoubtedly damaged her kidneys further due to scarring.

I realise this is a worst case scenario, and it is common to have dilated renal pelvis / ureters picked up on scan, as it will probably prove to be fine at follow up, but it might be worth speaking to a paediatrician at one of your an appts for reassurance.

horseshoe - dont see why this problem should affect a hb, it implies that you are not capable of checking if baby pees or not. Should be the same as chaoskay and take the baby up to hospital next day. I would be querying that decision!

I'm BF too, I hope anti-biotics don't cause thrush! It's hard enough in the early days as it is!

My DS had dilated kidney and had to take antibiotics from the minute he was born. Was precautionary and low dosage but i remember how much I worried about giving a newborn antibiotics and their immune system etc.

After about 6-9 months the kidney was normal and he could stop taking them. He doesn't seem to have suffered any side effects from taking antibiotics so young.

SIL's sis is a paedriatric nurse and she reassured me about the low dosage and how it wouldn't harm my DS.

Try not to worry as it is common and will probably all be fine in the end.