Managing conflict with anxious wife..

[Hubbywoowoos]

Dear all,

This is a slightly weird and long post, but I’d really value input from experienced women and those going through similar circumstances who may be able to offer some insights.
I am 33M husband of a beautiful, intelligent, capable and formidable 35F. She loves reading posts on mumsnet and so feedback you offer here will be useful to both of us. We are 8 months married, and she moved to my area from a different city and does not have good local social support, and while I know I’m lucky to be with someone like her, we are having some ongoing conflict, which in large degree come from our different perspectives, I’m from a family of 5, more happy go lucky and extroverted, while my wife is an only child, task-orientated, serious and loves stability.
We have been trying for a baby from the beginning, which has increased baseline stress levels. By God’s grace, my wife fell pregnant recently and we are hopefully due in October. Throughout the last 8 months of trying, and even more now, she has taken a very strict view on controlling any variables that could bring harm to a baby (namely infections such as toxo/ listeria or all kinds of chemicals.)
This has meant for the duration of our marriage so far:

1. We can never go together to friends/ family for food (we can’t control their cooking.)
2. We can’t eat out at restaurants / fast food (again we cant control the cooking, this is debilitating when trying to make or maintain friendships.)
3. I am not allowed to cook or prepare any food at all that we will both eat (and haven’t since the beginning of marriage) because she cant trust me to follow her strict rituals of cleanliness/ separating food. This is such a high bar that she has had to throw a lot of food away that she herself has cooked but she felt could have been contaminated etc for come reason. She’s so anxious/ focused that she cant even let me playfully touch her/ kiss her during cooking.
4. We are unable travel to her parents (who live in Europe 2.5 hour flight) or my parents (who live in Ireland (45min flight)) because there is risk to fertility/ foetus of radiation from flights. She doesn’t want her parents to visit us because they are unpredictable and unsettle her.
5. There are many places we can’t go because they have smells she is worried about (ie newly painted building, building site, friends who are refurbishing their home)- which seriously affects our ability to make friends.
6. She can’t sleep in any other room than her own, because she is worried about risk of infections/ chemicals/ stress and so we can’t go anywhere else to decompress/ relax/ holiday.
7. We can’t use any shampoo/ deodorant/ face wash/ moisturiser/ washing powder with any kind of fragrance. I get shouted at if I do, and she upset my 13 year old brother when he used some deodorant he gave me for Christmas.

Some small things can get quite extreme (in my opinion), so for instance in the last few days (by no means the worst):

• My wife has not allowed me to touch her/ kiss her for 48 hours because I used a face wash with salycidic acid. This is despite washing my face, showering 2/3 times and allowing 24 hours to go by.
• We can only walk repeated circles through a specific, small area of our local park because of her worries of being too close to the road or building sites or where thameswater officials were seen with spray cans 4 weeks ago.
• When I put a semi-peeled onion inside a zip-lock inside the fridge she had to wash the entire shelf because I’d touched the outside of the onion and the zip-lock with my hands.
• Today I got into trouble for putting a washed, peeled onion inside a Tupperware box into the wrong shelf in the fridge.

My wife does not acknowledge any anxiety out of proportion. She will not accept counselling for herself, or for us as a couple. To her these are all perfectly normal precautions and I am a mad barbarian for suggesting that they are restricting our lives too much.

Im worried that we are sacrificing joy, happiness and relationships that will benefit both of us and our offspring in the future by too much focus on avoiding tiny risks.

Of course I am not objective in this matter, but I would like to hear voices from people who may have some insight or similar experiences...

You don’t need advice from MumsNet. You need a medical practitioner specialising in prenatal anxiety.

^ agree

I think call your GP- your wife should be under the perinatal mental health team.

Agreed with PP. Midwives ask questions about anxiety and mental state at antenatal appointments, are you able to attend those? Hopefully that should trigger some concern and a referral for help. Does your trust have something like an advice line for fathers? If so might be another angle. Sorry to say but mumsnet/forums in general may not be the best place for you. I had anxiety issues though not nearly as extreme, and recognise now that reading forums was a big trigger. You will always find the worst case scenarios and it's not healthy.

Your wife needs urgent psychological help, and any marriage would shatter under this level of pressure and control. Your wife is being abusive, even though it may/is probably due to mental health issues. You can't live like this and she is suffering, too.

Your wife needs urgent psychological help. This is absolutely not "normal responses" to any day to day living and must be crippling for you both. You say you're lucky to have her, I think she is also incredibly lucky to have you.

To echo others this is a serious mental health issue which needs professional help as a priority.

From what you have written since the beginning of your marriage you say she has had strict rituals of cleanliness. It seems these have worsened and I can understand your need to seek advice. You must know this is not normal. Have you ever tried to talk with her where these rituals stem from or addressed certain issues before you decided to try for a baby? Your happiness is evidently suffering and you seem isolated. I hope she can get the help that she needs because this is no good environment to raise a child in. Best of luck!

Oh your poor wife. She must feel so much stress and anxiety right now.

Could you start attending midwife appointments with her? And raise your concerns there?
If you have the funds could you afford a private midwife for some more personal care so your wife can share her worries more easily.

PPs are right, your dw needs some support with her anxiety now, before the baby arrives. The midwife needs to be aware of the extent of her issues with hygiene, as such extreme anxiety can escalate after the baby is born.

Talk to your midwife.

Your wife definitely needs help.
Could you print off what you’ve written here and let the midwife or GP read it ? It’s sometimes easier than trying to explain.

Sounds like OCD which I have been diagnosed with myself since my first pregnancy. Encourage her to speak to her mental health team. It is hell to live with if so

My question is how OP doesn't know this is incredibly unhealthy. OP, does your wife know you're posting?

Agree with this too

I suffer from anixerty and there is stuff I will not do when I’m pregnant but not to this extent this seems like ocd to me and would defo contact your gp

This is not normal at all, it's all completely irrational. You need to contact the GP or midwife team for urgent support.

I agree with all the other posts, your wife needs to be under the care of the prenatal mental health team. It will not stop at the birth, she will probably carry this anxiety when baby is born. For her sake and everyone else's in your family, she needs to deal with it as it will stand in the way of your and her happiness.
I suffered with bad anxiety during my pregnancy but never to that level.

@Hubbywoowoos how is your wife?

Thanks all for the useful help. Especially kind words from people who have gone through similar.

we struggle on. My wife doesn’t accept she is going anything abnormal and refuses to get help. Things are spiralling but I feel very trapped. She has kept all friends and family at a distance- and if anyone challenges her (including her parents or me) her response is just to block us out , I am no longer allowed to sleep in the same room. Her mother in Poland challenged her and she refused to call her.

Your thoughts and prayer appreciated.

Honestly I would consider calling your local safeguarding team/call her GP. She needs urgent help or will be at risk of severe PPA/PPD.

I hope it all works out.

@Hubbywoowoos can only echo what everyone else has said... This certainly isn't normal. I'm currently 17wks pregnant after 3 previous losses and happily went for a date night with my hubby last night where we had a meal out and then saw a film at the cinema. I honestly don't know how you've coped for so long. Your wife sounds like she needs urgent psychological help (possibly almost at sectioning level). I think also it has got to a point where you clearly need help for yourself, because as a PP pointed out, whether intentional or not, this is abusive to you. I feel for your wife as this sounds like an awful way to live with no joy in it. Unfortunately I can't see it getting any better once baby is born, as the she will be panicking about exposing a newborn to toxins etc. Please seek help. Make an appointment with your GP and take along your initial post. You need support, and your wife definitely does. Wishing you all the best going forwards.

Your wife is very, very unwell. Please do not struggle on, this will not help you, her, or your relationship. She desperately needs help, but she is extremely unlikely to recognise this herself right now.

Please contact your GP practice and talk to someone as soon as possible. Your area should also have a local mental health crisis team, please contact them or someone. It is possible that this will only escalate during her pregnancy and she will need inpatient treatment at some point either before or after the birth (or both) to help her.

@Hubbywoowoos please listen very very carefully. Your wife is incredibly unwell. Please speak to the GP and read out what you wrote here. Please call the midwife team and read out exactly what you wrote here. These are huge and massive red flags that
Your wife is sick and needs urgent mental health care, maybe even to be sections if she will not accept it willingly herself. GP and midwife have a duty of care not only to your wife but also to your unborn child. Please please please take action, for everybody's sake.

@Hubbywoowoos As a midwife and mother, this post is very concerning. Your wife needs expert medical mental help, ASAP. I can only imagine the level of stress you are both feeling.
It is normal to have a small amount of anxiety, especially with a first pregnancy. There can be lots of information given to you and it can be hard to work out the right information. Sadly it sounds as if your wife is a long way past rational thinking and has moved into the area of mental health, OCD and controlling behaviour. This type of behaviour will not self resolve and will probably only get worse once the baby arrives. With her trying to control everything for all of you. Which is why she needs help now.

OCD often occurs in people who are of high intelligence and high achievers, they believe their actions are protecting them self or in this case their unborn baby. They will often socially isolate themself and their partner, so they can control each area of their life, this can lead to the break down of marriages and harm mentally to the child growing up in this environment . You say family are abroad, do you have good friends you can talk to about these issues? Try not to let yourself become isolated, managing this alone will not help either of you.
It sounds like grandparents are far away, but would you be able to speak with her mother and get her to come over. You say your wife won’t contact her, but this again appears to be a type of control and isolation.

You talk about her control of food and the fridge, what is her eating like? If she is throwing food away, is she eating enough to help support and grow a baby, with all the nutritional needs you have during pregnancy.

From what you have written you are clearly very intelligent and can see that none of your wife’s behaviour is normal, but are unsure how to help.
1, recognise you can not do this alone, she will not snap out of this, intervention is required.

2, it is clear you care for your wife, but there also seems to be an element of her behaviour that is very controlling over you, which in turn is a type of abuse. If a man controlled a women in this way, we would be saying to leave or get them help. Not all abuse is physical. Often men feel they have to support their wives decisions and actions during a pregnancy as they feel lost to know what else to do, this is sometimes not helpful, as it supports the OCD behaviour. By standing firm, walking away and getting support is also an away of showing her love.

3, You are very clear in your writing and it would be helpful for you to print out what you have written and take it to the midwife appointment or GP. They need to get a MH team involved now, for the safety of both your wife and baby to be.

I wish you all the best in getting the help she needs.

Fantastic post.

@Hubbywoowoos how have you been since you first posted? Have you managed to reach out to anyone?