Page 3 | C section vs natural delivery

ChildOfTheMoon · 2023-12-01T16:09:41+00:00

Give me the truth. No matter how wonderful , traumatic or gross it is. I want to know how painful your experiences were and your honest advice So to have a c section or a natural delivery ( without or without meds)

Anothernewname123 · 01/12/2023 22:06

wineoclock90 · 01/12/2023 17:24

@deliwoman1 forceps aren't too bad

You really cannot make that sweeping statement. You may mean they weren't in your case.

Google 'rotational forceps damage' and see whether the anecdotes of others agree with you or not.

ChocolateBiscuit2 · 01/12/2023 22:11

I’ve had one VB with induction.
I’m not entirely sure what happened but the hormones in the pessary seemed to take me from 0-100 extremely quickly into nearly precipitous labour.

As I was induced I had to constantly wear monitors so could only lie on my back and the hormones caused what was basically 4 hours of continuous contractions, I was dilating so quickly I couldn’t have any pain relief other than gas and air.

It was only as I can describe as life changing pain, I feel like I can go through anything now! I also think your body can go into a trance like state when in that kind of pain for a long duration, so you can’t remember it much. You’re just focused on getting through it.

If I had my time again I wouldn’t be induced, though who knows, not having one could have caused issues with the placenta. It’s difficult to say really.

StillWantingADog · 01/12/2023 22:14

2 vaginal births

1st pretty traumatic, 30 hour labour, was close to EMCS but doctor did an episiotomy and got him out. Pain was excruciating. Had quite a bad pph. No drugs other than entonox though was in the pool for a few hours (was hoiked out). Discharged two days later but was in terrible pain while the episiotomy healed.

Very anxious about the second, considered ELCS however practiced some hypnobirthing techniques which didn’t help on the day but helped with the anxiety running up to it. Much better experience, 6 hour Labour, had remifentanyl which was amazing. Tore when he popped out (was 10lb!). However felt ok within a few hours and out after 12.

These shot my pelvic floor and it’s never fully recovered. This and the experience with the episiotomy would make me totally choose an ELCS if I had my time again.

wineoclock90 · 01/12/2023 22:16

Anothernewname123 · 01/12/2023 22:06

You really cannot make that sweeping statement. You may mean they weren't in your case.

Google 'rotational forceps damage' and see whether the anecdotes of others agree with you or not.

Show quote history

Just saying about my experience.

Dorriethelittlewitch · 01/12/2023 22:24

Dc1. Waters went before labour started. No one knows why. Contractions which started naturally were all in my back and legs. Never known pain like it. Admitted to hospital on day 3 of contractions and told I obviously wasn't in labour by a midwife. Turned out I was over 5cms dilated. Put on the drip to "augment" labour as dc1's head wasn't properly on the cervix. Developed a fever. Got fully dilated and then dc1 rotated into an optimal position. I pushed for 2 hours and then was taken to theatre for a trial of forceps but he never got any lower than mid pelvis. Emergency section 80 odd hours after my waters broke with all alarms blaring. I passed out on the table. Dc1 went to nicu and I went mad, literally (roaming the hospital in my long Victorian nightgown that my mil had bought me for breastfeeding as it buttoned down doing a semi decent banshee impression). My first suicide attempt, dc1 was 24 hours old but luckily I happened to be as rubbish at that as I was at vaginal birth.

Physically I bounced back. Didn't get any pain killers after theatre or any food for that matter because no one told me I needed to return to the ward for it. Ended up in front of a psychiatrist.

Dc2, I booked an elective and promptly went into labour before hand. Had another emcs and again I bounced back physically only this time I held on to my sanity. Took me 6 years after the birth of dc1 to lose the psychiatrist though...

notaephron · 01/12/2023 22:27

Had a vaginal birth (induced) with forceps and episiotomy at the end and severe post-partum hemorrhage.

Currently pregnant with #2 and will still go for vaginal if possible. I had a fabulous, fabulous epidural which I'd recommend to anyone who asks.

The thought of recovery from abdominal surgery while looking after a newborn sounds hellish.

EdithStourton · 01/12/2023 22:36

It partly depends on how many children you are thinking of having. Sections increase the risk of things like placenta praevia in later pregnancies. On that basis, I'd not choose an ELCS for a first baby.

I had natural deliveries for all of mine. Labour wasn't as grim as I'd feared, and recovery was very quick.

Jellycats4life · 01/12/2023 22:38

I had (what many people would call) a gold star birth. Water birth with just gas and air. But I was left with a third degree tear and years of trauma and depression.

My second (and last) was a c section, which was an absolute breeze. No way was I going to give birth again. I swore that when my first baby was a few hours old.

Dyra · 01/12/2023 23:11

I've had one of each. Vaginal birth with the first, emergency C-section with the second. Both were ok. Recovery was far easier with the vaginal birth, but then there were no forceps, no episiotomy, or major tears. C-section was easier to recover from than anticipated, but wouldn't be my first choice for birth.

jesterdourt · 01/12/2023 23:16

And yes ‘natural’ births - how many deliveries are completely natural without any intervention or monitoring? It must be 1%?!

I was induced with a pessary & needed to be monitored so I guess that wouldn’t count as a “natural” birth? But I had no other intervention, no time!

Anothernewname123 · 01/12/2023 23:23

Tiredbehyondbelief · 01/12/2023 20:52

Hi there, I am a midwife working on the high risk (traditional) labour ward so very familiar with all the risky scenarios. Firstly UK is a great place to give birth, it's generally very safe regardless of the mode of delivery. Secondly every childbirth will always have some element of risk but so will a major surgery like an ELCS. Thirdly in the absence of a clear medical indication an ELCS has no benefits for the baby. It has some risks instead like baby being admitted to neonatal unit with respiratory difficulties or developing allergies in later life. Any CS is a risk for future pregnancies too so it's worth thinking how many children you might want to have. Instrumental delivery is generally very safe, just not on any woman's birth plan. It's usually a much better choice than a CS at full dilatation. How long the woman's labour is going to last and labour outcome often depends on a size and position of the baby and size and shape of a woman's pelvis so combinations are endless (it also depends to a degree on a midwife's skill and experience). No one can tell in advance how you labour is going to unfold. You can request a meeting with the Consultant midwife and set up an individualised birth plan with a low threshold for an emergency CS for example. If you are low risk at the end of your pregnancy and when you go on labour you can choose to start your labour at a midwifery led unit. If complications develop or you request an epidural you will be transferred to the traditional labour ward. However a low risk first time mum automatically cuts her risk of an emergency CS and Instrumental birth in half just by choosing to start labour on the midwifery led unit (even if she ends up being transferred). Sensible eating, not putting more than 10-15 kg weight in pregnancy, quitting smoking if necessary and staying as fit as possible (no high risk sports) is also a massive help in labour. I hope it helps

Why haven't you detailed the risks of VB to baby in the same way you have the risk of CS?
And why haven't you mentioned the risks of instrumental delivery causing permanent damage to the woman?
Glossing over these facts is not fair to women making decisions about their care.

SunRainStorm · 02/12/2023 00:34

I've had three scheduled c sections- all good experiences.

arlequin · 02/12/2023 09:20

Tiredbehyondbelief · 01/12/2023 20:52

Hi there, I am a midwife working on the high risk (traditional) labour ward so very familiar with all the risky scenarios. Firstly UK is a great place to give birth, it's generally very safe regardless of the mode of delivery. Secondly every childbirth will always have some element of risk but so will a major surgery like an ELCS. Thirdly in the absence of a clear medical indication an ELCS has no benefits for the baby. It has some risks instead like baby being admitted to neonatal unit with respiratory difficulties or developing allergies in later life. Any CS is a risk for future pregnancies too so it's worth thinking how many children you might want to have. Instrumental delivery is generally very safe, just not on any woman's birth plan. It's usually a much better choice than a CS at full dilatation. How long the woman's labour is going to last and labour outcome often depends on a size and position of the baby and size and shape of a woman's pelvis so combinations are endless (it also depends to a degree on a midwife's skill and experience). No one can tell in advance how you labour is going to unfold. You can request a meeting with the Consultant midwife and set up an individualised birth plan with a low threshold for an emergency CS for example. If you are low risk at the end of your pregnancy and when you go on labour you can choose to start your labour at a midwifery led unit. If complications develop or you request an epidural you will be transferred to the traditional labour ward. However a low risk first time mum automatically cuts her risk of an emergency CS and Instrumental birth in half just by choosing to start labour on the midwifery led unit (even if she ends up being transferred). Sensible eating, not putting more than 10-15 kg weight in pregnancy, quitting smoking if necessary and staying as fit as possible (no high risk sports) is also a massive help in labour. I hope it helps

When I spoke to my obstetrician she told me 45% of first time mums require surgical intervention after a long and exhausting labour. I really didn't want an almost 1 in 2 chance of forceps, ventouse or emergency c section.

rootsandwings89 · 02/12/2023 09:23

First birth - natural, 36 hours, epidural, forceps - left my DH and I very traumatised and I had a 6 week recovery. We said we'd never have another baby.

Second birth (5 years later) - elective C-Section, best decision I ever made. Everything was calm and controlled and my recovery was quicker than my natural birth

Good luck OP

Tiredbehyondbelief · 02/12/2023 10:13

Anothernewname123 · 01/12/2023 23:23

Why haven't you detailed the risks of VB to baby in the same way you have the risk of CS?
And why haven't you mentioned the risks of instrumental delivery causing permanent damage to the woman?
Glossing over these facts is not fair to women making decisions about their care.

Show quote history

It is my professional obligation to give a balanced information. There is a lot more info on the topic of Caesarean section in 3 articles published in 2018 in the leading medical journal Lancet (free to read, need to register). As for birth outcomes in low risk labours - one needs to look into resource called Decisions about Place of Birth - it has excellent graphics and explanations

Tiredbehyondbelief · 02/12/2023 10:16

arlequin · 02/12/2023 09:20

When I spoke to my obstetrician she told me 45% of first time mums require surgical intervention after a long and exhausting labour. I really didn't want an almost 1 in 2 chance of forceps, ventouse or emergency c section.

Show quote history

There are no obstetricians in the midwifery led units or home births. Also, obstetricians are not involved in the care of low risk women who come onto the obstetrician-led unit. So by definition, they only see complex cases. Not every labour is long and exhausting. As a midwife I see plenty of good ones.

Tiredbehyondbelief · 02/12/2023 10:28

The resource I was talking about earlier in at the end of the newly revised NICE intrapartum care guideline if any one wants to have a detailed look. I haven't worked out how to post the link

arlequin · 02/12/2023 11:51

@Tiredbehyondbelief but this was the stats for the whole hospital including the MLU and home births

pearsandbear · 02/12/2023 13:10

I had two lovely births, first time in the hospital with no pain relief, second time at home in a pool with gas and air. It was painful but nothing unbearable and I really enjoyed both experiences. For me a c section was my biggest fear, for some people it's a vaginal birth, do what's best for you!

Anothernewname123 · 02/12/2023 14:32

Tiredbehyondbelief · 02/12/2023 10:13

It is my professional obligation to give a balanced information. There is a lot more info on the topic of Caesarean section in 3 articles published in 2018 in the leading medical journal Lancet (free to read, need to register). As for birth outcomes in low risk labours - one needs to look into resource called Decisions about Place of Birth - it has excellent graphics and explanations

Show quote history

But my point is that you did not give balanced information. Your information was biased against CS and for VB because you did not give the same type of information on risk for each mode of delivery.
"Low risk" is such a loaded description. What does it actually mean?
Is it possible to begin by being low risk but become higher risk? What if you are 'low risk' but then need to be induced? Is a back to back positioning still low risk?

Anothernewname123 · 02/12/2023 14:38

Tiredbehyondbelief · 02/12/2023 10:16

There are no obstetricians in the midwifery led units or home births. Also, obstetricians are not involved in the care of low risk women who come onto the obstetrician-led unit. So by definition, they only see complex cases. Not every labour is long and exhausting. As a midwife I see plenty of good ones.

Show quote history

Can you not see that your opinion is equally as skewed @Tiredbehyondbelief because you are seeing births at the opposite end of the spectrum to the Obstetrician? As a midwife involved in the care of low risk women your view is biased towards those deliveries.
You say 'not every labour is long and exhausting' but what % of first time labours are? Surely short labours are in a tiny minority for first births?

Tiredbehyondbelief · 02/12/2023 14:45

arlequin · 02/12/2023 11:51

@Tiredbehyondbelief but this was the stats for the whole hospital including the MLU and home births

I can't comment on the stats for your particular hospital. BTW, forceps or instrumental birth is not considered a surgery. I appreciate they are never on any woman's birth plan. However the recovery is quicker and maternal risks are much better compared to CS. I believe from my professional experience, the baby risk of being admitted to neonatal care unit is about the same for vaginal birthor elective CS. I have seen a few devastated parents who thought they were doing best for their baby only to see the baby admitted to neonatal care unit with respiratory difficulties.

NoCloudsAllowed · 02/12/2023 14:45

Op if there was one 'good' way of giving birth, everyone would do it the same way. There are pros and cons to each.

Probably a straightforward vaginal birth is optimal in terms of recovery, followed by elcs, followed by emcs, followed by complex/instrumental vaginal birth but you don't get to choose what you have from the outset.

Tiredbehyondbelief · 02/12/2023 14:47

Anothernewname123 · 02/12/2023 14:32

But my point is that you did not give balanced information. Your information was biased against CS and for VB because you did not give the same type of information on risk for each mode of delivery.
"Low risk" is such a loaded description. What does it actually mean?
Is it possible to begin by being low risk but become higher risk? What if you are 'low risk' but then need to be induced? Is a back to back positioning still low risk?

Show quote history

I can't compress 3 Lancet articles into a Mumsnet post. I have given the gist of it

Tiredbehyondbelief · 02/12/2023 14:49

Anothernewname123 · 02/12/2023 14:32

But my point is that you did not give balanced information. Your information was biased against CS and for VB because you did not give the same type of information on risk for each mode of delivery.
"Low risk" is such a loaded description. What does it actually mean?
Is it possible to begin by being low risk but become higher risk? What if you are 'low risk' but then need to be induced? Is a back to back positioning still low risk?

Show quote history

Further to the earlier message. ... NICE intrapartum care guideline defines low and high risk. Again it's too much info for MN post