Epidural or no epidural

[BEO]

For context : first pregnancy and only 23 weeks but trying to prepare.

I am wanting to hear people’s opinions on epidurals. I am not ruling one out but don’t particularly want one if I can do it without. Just wanting some more info on the pros and cons on them.

The reasons I’m not so keen are that you can’t move about , you can’t feel when to push and you may be more likely for intervention (forceps etc).

Obviously the pros are obvious, no pain!

I know some people have the opinion ‘why put yourself through unnecessary pain when you can have an epidural’ but I would rather try with just the other pain killers and gas and air.

be interesting to hear from people who have had multiple births, and have experienced both with and without epidural and what they prefer x

In my first labour I asked for paracetamol, because gas and air isn't used where I live, and they just looked at me like I'd grown another head and said, "Madame, you can take paracetamol if you really want to, but it will do nothing."

They were right, btw, it did nothing.

@MargotBamborough I think for me it's my own fear of spinal cord vs needles that puts me off. No one ever told me it's risky as far as I remember, it was just a personal decision I made.

I'd also never get in a helicopter or hot air balloon but other people would find that risk (which again is very small!) acceptable. I guess I always just err on the side of extreme caution as, knowing my luck, I'd be the one who had things go wrong 😅

@MargotBamborough Yeah Paracetamol is basically useless 😂 I remember laughing when we first called to ask to go in (around four hours before my son was born) and my husband said the midwives suggested I take some Paracetamol. I don't even take it for headaches, it's so rubbish.

That's pretty much what I said when they asked me if I tried it when I realised they were actually serious.

I can't believe it's actually a thing to offer women in labour when it is useless for mild headaches!

I think if you understand that the risk is minute and you still aren't comfortable taking it then that's absolutely fair enough. What I object to is the widely held belief that epidurals cause other interventions when the evidence that this is the case is, at best, incredibly flawed.

There does seem to be some evidence to suggest that an epidural can sometimes slow labour down, increasing the use of syntocinon to get things moving again. When I gave birth the second time, an epidural was part of my birth plan because I was attempting a VBAC and my doctor wanted me to have proper pain relief in place to facilitate an emergency C-section if there was any sign of uterine rupture. But when I was admitted the midwives said it would be good if I could get to 5cm or at least be in properly active labour before having the epidural, because if it did slow things down they wouldn't be able to use as much syntocinon as they would on a woman with no previous C-section. So the timing was quite important in my case. As it happened, I don't think it slowed things down at all because I went from 3-10 in about an hour and a half. Or if it did slow things down, I'm quite glad it did because if I'd dilated much quicker than that and without pain relief I think I would have been completely shell shocked afterwards. But with the epidural it was an absolutely brilliant experience and I look back on it as being one of the best moments of my life. I'm actually quite sad that I probably won't get to do it again.

On the needle in spinal cord point, it's actually an argument in favour of having an epidural earlier on when you aren't writhing in pain and unable to sit still for long enough for the anaesthetist to place the needle correctly. There was another thread on here recently where we were debating whether there is really such a thing as "too late" for an epidural and an anaesthetist came along and said it's too late if your contractions are so close together that you can't stay still even for a little while.

I suppose I think it suggests an element of disassociation from the whole process really. I honestly don't know the answer to this but do you still get the post birth europhia ( Oxytocin induced?) if you haven't really experienced the labour ( if you were asleep or laughing and joking).

But I like endurance sports and find doing challenging things rewarding. I also loved, loved, loved having physiological third stage and going home 2 hours after Dd arrived. I was quite prepared to endure a few hours of contractions for those rewards.

I suppose I think of child birth as a natural hormone driven process. Of course if things don't progress and there are complications modern medicine is wonderful and saves thousands of lives everyday. But medicalising childbirth " just in case" strikes me as unfortunate.

I think the jury remains out on whether early epidural increases complications. I agree France has both very high rates of epidurals and excellent obstetric outcomes. However I suspect they are both features of an effective woman centred health system.

But like I said, I am a bit of an old hippy, I used reusable nappies, breast fed, tried to avoid comercial baby food etc. I think going for a natural birth was part of that. Although I did love the gas and air....

I don't think the OP believes this, but I've seen PP say it.

Your body isn't 'designed' to give birth. It's an evolutionary compromise between size of pelvis when walking upright and size of baby's head/shoulders. All evolution needs is for enough babies to survive to adulthood to reproduce themselves. For some women birth will be straightforward and relatively easy to cope with. For others it can go wrong very very quickly. We have very little control over that as so much depends on baby's position, length of labour, medical conditions etc.

Birth nowadays is relatively safe. We're not having to face the risks to ourselves and our babies that our ancestors did. But that's because of access to medical care.

And until you go into labour you don't know how it's going to go. Keep your options open - my birth plan was worded that if I wanted pain relief I was to get it as soon as I asked (bearing in mind wait for anaesthetist).

And until you go into labour you don't know how it's going to go. Keep your options open - my birth plan was worded that if I wanted pain relief I was to get it as soon as I asked (bearing in mind wait for anaesthetist).

This I suggest ruling nothing in or out definatively.

It just comes down to the fact that people are different and see labour differently. It was a means to an end for me, that's it. I would've happily skipped it all until baby was in my arms.

But then I'm practically the opposite of a hippy. I use pampers, formula fed from birth, used some commercial baby food and this time I'll be requesting a c-section because I have no desire to attempt to give birth to twins vaginally.

I think there's some misconception around having an epidural. I had one and was able to get up and walk around. Don't think they all confine you to zero movement

Ain't that the truth.

@SouthLondonMum22 I know someone who gave birth to twins vaginally and was shocked (and impressed). No way on earth would I try that either 😅

I have seen that once ( in 2001) it was amazing and beautiful. She took her lovely twins home the next day to meet their big sister. I was in awe.

I can see the argument you're making, but for me personally, no, I didn't feel dissociated from the process.

But then my two experiences of labour were really like night and day. The first time it was the classic induction which stalled at 5cm and ended up as an emergency C-section and yes, that time I did feel like I wasn't really playing an active role in my own labour. I felt disappointed that I hadn't been able to experience spontaneous labour and guilty about all the conflicting feelings I had. Had I let myself and my baby down by not trusting my body to know when the time was right? Did I imagine the reduced movements because I was too scared? Or was I making a big fuss over nothing because the most important thing was to get my baby out safely? I felt like my baby's birth was something doctors did to me rather than something I did myself, and I felt sad about that. The epidural was really neither here nor there though. It provided welcome pain relief at the time and I don't honestly believe it changed the outcome.

The second time round I was desperate to experience spontaneous labour and a vaginal birth because of what had happened the first time. And honestly, it was magical. I was so happy and excited when I went into labour, feeling like my body was actually doing what it was supposed to be doing. I spent most of the night in the bath tub with essential oils, listening to music and breathing through the contractions, and although I don't think that particularly helped to move things along it was a nice experience. But because we had already decided that I would get an epidural at some point, I asked for it at the moment the contractions started to get stronger and I was starting to feel like I wasn't really enjoying the experience anymore. At that point I was moaning a little bit during each contraction but nowhere near screaming in pain or anything like that. Because the epidural was lightly dosed it just took the edge off. I could still feel that I was in labour and that things were progressing, but I was able to rest a bit. Still got the urge to push, still got the euphoria when my baby was finally born.

I do think that maternity care here is more woman-centric, for example, each woman getting free pelvic floor physiotherapy after each birth, longer hospital stays but with much better food and never more than two women to a room, for example. And I genuinely think the belief that proper pain relief should be offered as standard is part of that overall philosophy. I'm now extremely mistrustful of the NHS's attitude to this. Because it's not just making women fearful of pain relief or telling women who have asked for an epidural that they don't really need one, or they will have to wait, or it's too early, and oops, now it's too late. It's also sticking new mothers on postnatal wards with seven other women and their babies and their male partners who snore and watch YouTube with the sound turned on all night. It's not feeding women who have just given birth at the "wrong" time and making them wait until the next mealtime. It's expecting women who have just had a C-section to get up and walk to where the food is being served, or to visit their babies in the NICU, and not giving them any assistance if they can't do that. It's not having anyone on call to help women with a fresh C-section incision lift their babies out of their cots for night feeds. It's women who have been hospitalised with gestational diabetes not being offered any suitable meal options which will allow them to keep their blood sugars under control.

Sorry, that was a bit of a rant. I just think they could do better, but they don't, because it's just women having babies, which women have been doing since the beginning of time and they should stop making such a fuss about it.

I had my DT’s vaginally. Small babies, in the right position and an early epidural.

From what I understand because I'm still rather new to it all, I only found out a few weeks ago and I'm still reeling honestly 😂but if the first baby is head down and with no other complications then a vaginal birth is the recommendation.

No thank you.

The doctor who delivered my first baby, by C-section, has written a book about childbirth.

In the section on pain relief he says that the one circumstance where he really would very strongly recommend an epidural is in the case of a multiple pregnancy, where there's a chance that the first baby might come out vaginally but the second baby ends up in the wrong position and needs to be born by C-section. From what I gather, everything moves around so much when the first baby is being born that it's very difficult to predict what position the second baby will be in by the time the first baby is out, so even if everything has looked textbook up to that point, the second baby could end up breech or transverse at the last minute.

I have to admit, that part horrified me. Recovering from a vaginal birth? Fine. Recovering from a C-section? Fine. I've done both.

Doing both at the same time? No. Thank. You.

That is the main reason why I want a c-section. I do not want to risk the chance of recovering from both a c-section and a vaginal birth, especially with DS to consider who is still very young.

The risk of things potentially going wrong are higher so it just feels much safer and controlled going straight to a c-section. Knowing the date to plan for childcare will be an added bonus too.

You having twins ? Wow

I'm responding to the OP and haven't read through all of the replies, so apologies if my reply here has nothing to do with the current discussion.

I had an epidural which later ended in what was recorded as an EmCS, but given I waddled into the theatre room at my own leisurely pace, there was nothing 'Em' about it.

I have never been a fan of needles whether it's having a tooth extracted or a blood test. However, during my pregnancy, I had so many blood tests that I just got used to it, so I welcomed an epidural with open arms. I did overthink it and wondered whether I could take the initial injection in my back to numb the epidural needle, but I honestly could not feel much because at 38 weeks I was so bloated and plumped up from the oedema that everything felt so buffered as I had ballooned so much.

From the age of 35 until I had my first child at 40, I suffered from the sudden onset of severe dysmenorrhea which has been THE worst thing I have ever experienced physically in my whole life. It meant extremely painful periods / uterine contractions, hot and cold flashes, projectile vomiting (and out the other end, too), and tingly hands and arms. I couldn't sit, stand or do anything for hours until the symptoms subsided or the painkillers (which were never strong enough) kicked in and helped a little. Thankfully, after childbirth, my periods returned to their former state and I've not had it since.

It took me a while to realise it, but I was basically experiencing the same sensations of going into labour every month for 5 years (apart from the 'ring of fire' moment!).

For the above reasons, I personally would always go for an epidural every time.

I am! I just found out at my 12 week scan a few weeks ago.

So much for just 1 more. 😂

😮💐🍾

Point taken.

I don't know, I think your phrase raises an interesting point.

Women wouldn't be screaming for epidurals if they didn't have it drummed into them that an epidural should be a last resort, only to be used when you absolutely cannot cope, and that having one is a mark of failure.

If your sister had felt more confident to say, "You know what, I think I would like an epidural now" when things started to get quite ouchy, and been given one in a timely manner, there probably would have been no screaming.

@SouthLondonMum22 Congratulations!

I'm with you on that one. There's exactly two reasons I would ever elect for an elective C-section. Breech/transverse (after failed ECV ideally) and a multiples birth.

I've seen a fair few twin births, both vaginally and C-section. Even a handful of triplets (only ever seen 1 attempted vaginally, but 100% were C-section in the end)! But I would worry too much about baby 2. Especially after seeing a rotational forceps delivery for twin 1, then a cat 1 section for twin 2... No haemorrhage (God only knows how), but there was still the best part of a litre lost. I shudder to think what that poor woman's recovery must've been like. Nope. Nope. Nuh uh. Nope.