5 weeks bleeding, progesterone?.

[Herefordeals]

Hi all,

Just looking for some guidance.

Currently 5 weeks pregnant after 2 MC's in 4 months. Bleeding started yesterday, initially pink and watery and only on wiping. (Sorry tmi!).

Last night progressed to red but only on wiping once and tailed off overnight and is now dark brown. Again,only on wiping. Nothing left on a pad but had cramping most of the night.

I called epu who were useless and said they aren't open weekends and to call this morning but really, nothing will be done until 6 weeks anyway. It seems so sad and a bit like a lottery. Bleed during the week and get the care you need, bleed over a weekend then tough was how it came across.

Anyway, my question is, (and I know I'm probably clutching at straws), has anyone been offered progesterone at this stage and if so, how did you get it? I was told on the phone yesterday that it wouldn't be prescribed until 6 weeks when pregnancy would be seen on a scan but what if I don't make it another week and need the help now. Anyone able to offer any words of advice? I'm heartbroken. This is MC number 3 in total but as not consecutive, it doesn't allow me to get referred to the MC clinic.

Sorry you're experiencing this.

My situation was not directly comparable - My bleed in 2nd pregnancy (after 1 MC) was at 7 weeks and they detected cardiac activity so I had progesterone prescribed until 16w. That pregnancy ended in miscarriage before 12w.

But the thing that might be useful for you is that I then contacted my GP to see how she could help. I had FBC done and day 2 and day 21 bloods for hormones. I pijnted her to the NiCe guidelines updated last year and she also said she would prescribe progesterone as soon as I had a positive test next time. I'm now 24w and fingers crossed all looks fine.

Worth contacting your GP and pointing them to the new NICE guidelines.

Thanks so much for sharing your experience. I just feel so helpless and want to try every possible way to help this one make it. Even if it ends in MC, I need to know I've tried. Going to call the GP and have a chat. Thanks so much for the advice and best of luck with the rest of your pregnancy.

I know, it's so hard feeling powerless especially when we are used to taking charge of other areas of life!

Perhaps telling you stuff you already know but lots of women have bleeding and go on to have a success pregnancy. At this stage it's far too early for any guarantees, statistically most MCs happen in the early weeks but the bleeding doesn't mean your card is marked.
Did you manage to book a scan with EPU?

So I've spent hours and 64 calls later, and finally managed to speak to the epu. They won't scan me until 6 weeks and said it's basically all down to money.

They referred to the NICE guidelines and said they won't prescribe progesterone until I've had the scan so need to wait a week. I said others can get progesterone earlier and she said id need to miscarry three times to get access to the clinic which would then give the option of getting it before 6 weeks. Until then, nobody is taken seriously and 6 weeks seems to be the point they take interest.

If I had the means (which I don't!), she said I'd get it no problem if I choose to see a private doctor.

In a last ditch attempt,called the gp and although very sympathetic, said she wouldn't prescribe it either and said to go back to epu because if I'm bleeding,they really ought to see me. They won't.

So back to square one and now a waiting game. The whole thing seems very unfair and very much the case that if you have money, you'll be given the treatment you need.

At least I know I've tried. Thanks again for the support, the kindness of strangers is a powerful thing at a time like this.

How are you doing now OP? Has the bleeding stopped? Did you get an appointment for next week with EPU as you will be 6 weeks then?

I've just hit 5 weeks today. I've had 2 prior consecutive miscarriages and just had a small amount of blood when I wiped. If this one miscarries I'll finally be treated to the courtesy of investigating why. The system is just awful and inhumane.

Hi @Herefordeals

so sorry this is how they are being with you. I had a similar experience, though from one previous mmc with spotting throughout it. I fell pregnant again without a period and experienced bleeding from 4.5 weeks. I contacted the Epu at 5 weeks and they said they wouldn’t scan me until they could confirm hcg was over 1000. They did a blood test at 5+4 and my hcg was 24,000, so they agreed to do a scan at 5+6. A heartbeat was detected so they then prescribed progesterone.

Perhaps you could request a blood test and they may scan you based on the results if that? Sorry if that’s something you’ve already requested, I just know from experience how out of your mind with worry you must be. Really hope it works out for you 🤞🏼♥️

Thanks both of you for checking in.

@JunkJane I'm so sorry to hear you're in a horrible situation too. How have things been as they day has gone on? I hope the bleeding settled, it's such a worrying time and frustrating that there's nothing we can do but wait. Mine has continued but more just spotting when wiping still and nothing on a pad. It's bright red and I have no pregnancy symptoms that I had a week ago so I'm losing hope. It still doesn't feel like I'm bleeding enough though, on previous occasions it has been like a tap was turned on inside me! This doesn't even warrant a pad but I know deep down something isn't right. I'm also having lots of period type cramping and have done since the weekend. It just doesn't seem to be amounting to anything yet.

@Cdoc thanks for the tip! Unfortunately I tried in vain to get them to see me and the best they could do is Wednesday next week. That was only after tears on the phone and the threat of a complaint!
I take comfort from the fact you had success after your MMC and hope we will be lucky one day too. Right now it just feels hopeless.

@Herefordeals i haven't had any more incidents today which is very confusing for me as this is now unfamiliar territory. My first miscarriage I had blood of all colours when I wiped basically within days of my BFP all the way to when I lost it suddenly at 8 weeks (after early scan showed baby was fine and had heartbeat at 7W5D). My second miscarriage I had a little spotting around 6 weeks then a huge surge at 7 weeks. Scan showed baby still there but unable to detect heartbeat at 8 weeks and confirmed no heart beat at follow up scan at 9 weeks.

So having a bit of brown blood when I wiped this morning felt sadly familiar and like I was on course for another miscarriage. Now I don't know what to think.

You know your body better than anyone and you are definitely having some symptoms that are concerning, but you have done everything you can to advocate for you and your pregnancy so it may just have to be a waiting game until Wednesday unfortunately.

For what it's worth, I've read A LOT of posts here in this forum and others. There are so many posts from mums to be about early scans before 6 weeks and not being able to see the yolk sack or foetal pole or etc etc. So even if you could have got a scan this week, there's a chance you would not have received any answers but more questions, more anxiety, and another appointment to agonise over later because the results of the scan were inconclusive. I know that's small consolation.

To answer your original query, I was concerned about progesterone levels this pregnancy, so I've been taking vitamin b6 everyday. You should do some reading for yourself to see if there are foods you could include in your diet to naturally boost progesterone until you can get in to have your blood checked.

@JunkJane how are you doing now? Thanks for the tip, been researching b6 and seems interesting! I'll give anything a go.

@Herefordeals I'm doing pretty good. No other spotting except that one time. Got my sore boobies yesterday (yay! 😅) and got my booking in appointment scheduled for the 2nd. She phoned me while I was having my nap earlier so I was a bit dazed. I'm gonna phone them back and see if I can go in for my bloodwork sooner than that just to check my levels.

How are you doing? How has the bleeding been?

I had another incident with spotting. A bit of pink blood this morning and then a bit of brown. Only when wiping. 5 weeks 4 days today. I'm going to monitor it and if still spotting on Thursday when I'm 6 weeks, I'll see if I can get in for a scan.

Oh no I'm so sorry to hear it's happened again but remember, it may not be bad! You don't need me to tell you but spotting can be common in these early days. I totally understand though that after a loss (or losses) this doesn't make it any easier. I'm really envious of those who are innocent to the worry these early days can bring after a loss! Definitely keep an eye and get in later in the week if it continues. It will give peace of mind and also you can perhaps ask about progesterone too while you're there .

I did a test yesterday and was a strong positive still but I know that means very little. Still no pregnancy symptoms and the bleeding tails off towards bedtime but in mornings I'm experiencing red blood but still only ever when I wipe. I get cramping too but again as the day goes on that eases. I've never bled enough to say I've definitely miscarried as before that has been really obvious (sorry tmi!). I know this bleeding isn't normal either though and has now gone on for over a week with daily bleeding when wiping and cramping that at times has required paracetamol. Epu said to make sure I test before the scan this week as if it's negative not to bother going. Would it go negative in a couple of days or if it was positive yesterday can I bank on there being some kind of line a few days later (even if it's not good news)? I just grudge paying for more tests when I really just want definitive answers that only a scan will provide. What do you think?

@Herefordeals my spotting is now just barely brown and barely there, but very similar to my first miscarriage so not taking any comfort in that just yet. I've been to a local private scan website and put a scan in my shopping cart but haven't pulled the trigger. It's not so much the money, but the timing I'm worried about. I think it's still too early for them to see anything and feel it's probably best to just keep waiting. I just want to have any reassurance I can get at this stage.

For the conversation with the midwives about progesterone, what should I say? How can I ask for them to take my bloods?

I'm so sorry about the experience you're having. A strong pregnancy test is a good sign though. I was trawling a lot of the forums last night and saw a number of posts that had women in your situation. Bright red blood even heavy bleeding and they went on to have healthy pregnancies. I know we look for the negative when things go wrong, but there are positive outcomes too.

Because you had such a strong positive test recently, it would be unlikely for you to test negative before your scan. If it were me and the test inexplicably was negative tomorrow morning (again, given your strong result yesterday, I think this is scientifically impossible) I would still go because you haven't actually passed anything and you could need medical assistance.

@JunkJane I have my fingers crossed for you! The waiting is the worst isn't it. You could always book for next week when you're well into week 6? Better chance of seeing everything clearly then too. So happy for you that all seems to be well. Sounds crazy but try to enjoy this time. I try and just tell myself that 'today I'm pregnant ' and it seems to help just taking one day at a time and enjoying it instead of worrying about what could happen tomorrow or next week.

In relation to the progesterone I was actually spoken to about it when I was in the epu for my last MC a couple of months ago. The nurse/midwife said that it's something I'd be eligible for if I was ever pregnant and bleeding again. This time round when the bleeding started I called and reminded them of that conversation. It was like pulling teeth but basically they referred to NICE guidelines (have a look yourself online) which state if you're experiencing bleeding, had a previous MC and you've had your pregnancy confirmed on a scan (at 6 weeks) you are entitled to progesterone treatment. Have a look at Tommy's website, they have some good statistics and info on it. Im not naive to think it will work like magic but after recurrent losses im willing to try anything and it's definitely worth reading up on if you have the time. Im not sure how that would work with the b6 though,I'd maybe ask about that before taking both. From what I was told they don't actually need to take your bloods, it's a pessary you use up until week 16 to support the pregnancy and help prevent MC.

Thanks for the reassurance. Scan actually moved to this afternoon as a cancellation came up. So terribly nervous. I know deep down it's not going to be good but I couldn't help myself this morning and did another test and got the strongest line ever. It was so reassuring but the bleeding and lack of any symptoms makes me think I shouldn't get too excited. Will update later. Solidarity mama!

@Herefordeals ohhh good luck this afternoon darling. I'm at work now and can't respond as much as I'd like. I'm thinking of you though!

@Herefordeals I've been thinking about you this evening and genuinely hope you are ok.

@JunkJane thanks so much for your message. Not a good day. Scan was inconclusive (they saw nothing, no sac or evidence of pregnancy) so they did some bloods. My HCG is over 1900 so they need to do more in 48 hours to rule out ectopic. They did say it could be that the pregnancy is just too early to be seen on a scan but I'm certain of my dates so that's impossible. The other option is that I've already miscarried and levels just haven't dropped yet but the bleeding was so light I can't think it is that either? Either way not good news and now more waiting until the next bloods give us answers. Felt like everyone I passed today had a baby or pregnant belly meanwhile i'm heartbroken at more loss and it's such a lonely road to be on.

I hope all goes well for you, really hope this is your time.

@Herefordeals I'm so very sorry. That does sound like not a good day. I think you're probably right, if you had miscarried there should have been more than light bleeding. Are you booked in just for bloods at your next appointment or have they scheduled a followup scan as well?

Did they do the transvaginal scan or just the normal US? In my last pregnancies they could not see anything with external US at early scan but could see with transvaginal. But I'm on the heavier side so that is a contributing factor.

I'm there on the road with you. Spotting has continued (still brown). I'm booked in for a scan for the 3rd. EPU won't see me until 3 weeks after my first positive pregnancy test and they said that's the first available appointment they have which feels a bit cruel as I'll be 6 weeks tomorrow and 7w1d when they scan me.

Know that you're not alone. I'm here if you want to chat. Solidarity mama ❤️

@Herefordeals just thought I'd drop you a quick update. Starting yesterday I had significant bleeding. Bright red and with one small clot. I was able to get in to EPU for a scan today and baby is still there but they are concerned about slow heart beat. I'm 6w4d but measuring 5w5d. They did not seem too concerned with the date discrepancy, just the heart beat. They said they couldn't tell me what the BPM was. They also couldn't determine where the bleeding was coming from.

I have an appointment to go back tomorrow to speak with a doctor regarding a progesterone prescription. Follow up scan booked for next Monday but I'm not optimistic.

@JunkJane oh no I'm so sorry to hear this. I have been thinking about you over the past few days and really hoped that things were going well for you. Try and take comfort in that what you saw today is still positive and your little one is still with you. I pray you'll have more good news on Monday. How's the bleeding now?
I ended up going for more bloods last week and HCG was rising but not enough to be viable. Saturday saw me go for another scan and they found it was an ectopic. A few hours later I was rushed away for emergency surgery and left tube was removed. Been a whirlwind and I'm still in shock. Home and grieving another wee soul, in so much pain and feeling thankful to be alive all at the same time.

I'm here if you need a chat. Keep in touch, you have a random Mumsnet stranger with everything crossed for you!

@Herefordeals oh hun. I'm so very sorry for your loss. I thought it must have been bad news when I didn't hear from you, but did not anticipate just how rough things were going.

Do you have friends or family around you to help? From the insomnia driven googling I've done this evening, having your people around you made a significant difference to others' recoveries. I know you must be feeling all the emotions just now, but I genuinely hope guilt is not one of them.

You did nothing wrong, you could not have stopped this from happening, this is not your fault. You fought everyone to get the attention you deserved for this pregnancy and advocated like a Washington lobbyist to be taken seriously. 64 phone calls of fighting. You are a warrior and I know when you're ready to try again, you'll get back up fighting some more.

Thanks @JunkJane , your message made me smile. Thankfully have dh here and family are being very supportive from a distance. Really don't want to see anyone in person but they've all been checking in. Thanks for being so supportive too, I'm fairly new to mn but it's been so nice having someone out there who (sadly) understands.

I hope the bleeding has stopped or at least eased off a bit for you today? Remember, 'today I'm pregnant '. Keep going and stay positive. I'm still cheering you on, I'm desperate for one of us to have the outcome we always hope for ❤️

@Herefordeals bleeding is worse today and now also passing small clots. I met with the doctor for the progesterone prescription today and put that in at the pharmacy. Should be able to pick it up tomorrow.

I'm not being doom and gloom when I say that I'm fairly certain I won't make it to my Monday scan. I'm just bleeding too heavily and with too much cramping for this to be anything other than an impending miscarriage. Either that or something else is very wrong.

But! It has been considerably more bearable this time around going through this being able to talk with you. Wish neither one of us was in this position of course.

I'll keep you updated ❤️