Maternity clawback - anyones employer ever gone through with it?

[VORE]

So my job is horrible, incredibly high stress, culture is appaulling - normal to be expected to work all hours to meet unreasonable expectations (very much a do what ever it takes to get the work over the line no matter the cost), no one seems to care about your personal well being, I've had HR involved due to work place stress and it did little to no good. The output expectations from senior leadership are far too high for the staffing resource the business has and yet they refuse to hire more staff. The staff turnover is very high because people can't handle the work culture. They've gone through two CFOs in two years because both have quit because they said they couldn't handle how unreasonable the CEO and senior leadership expectations are.

Had I not been pregnant I would have left this job months ago, however have been trapped because of maternity pay.

Problem is the company offers a prtty decent enhanced mat pay however there is also a 12 month clawback clause on the enhanced mat pay.

I really and truly do not want to go back to this job after my maternity, not only because its so unbelievably stressfull but also financially it doesnt make sense as the cost of 2 in nursery would take up 75% of my net salary, so I would be working a very high stress job whilst also managing two small children and basically drowing for very little financial reward. There are much more profitable work options out there for me if I left too that would make having 2 in nursery worth it.

My plan is to start making noises about only being able to come back 2 days a week because of childcare and also making it clear that if I did come back it would exclusivly be for the clawback period, basically implying that I will be a pretty rubbish employee for the year if I do go back - with the hopes that they might just decide that its not worth the hassle of having me back and make me redundant (and therefore not have to pay back my enhanced mat pay).

So I'm just wondering has anyone ever had their clawback period enforced and actually had to pay back their enhanced maternity? And if so how did it work? Did you work out a payment plan? Surely they can only take the net amount after tax back off you too?

And before any holier than thous start chiming in about the fact I shouldnt take the money if I have no intention of going back - UK stat pay is utterly appaulling, its a large company is is doing very well financially (this would be a drop in the ocean for them) and also they have treated me so badly and caused me such an exessive amount of stress during my pregnancy that I really and truly do not care about doing the right thing by them because as far as I am concerned they haven't cared about doing the right thing by me during my pregnancy.

I didn't return after maternity leave, the annual leave that I had accrued whilst off, plus working the maximum amount of KIT days (to clear my workload before I officially left) meant that I didn't actually owe them any more money by my last day.

My enhanced maternity pay wasn't great though so it's probably not possible this way for most.

Surely they can only take the net amount after tax back off you too?

No, they will take the gross amount off you and you will need to get a tax rebate through the HMRC.

Re taking extended sick time
That will likely form part of your reference request from a new job.

It's also likely that this will impact things like life insurance, eg if you have a gp record of being off for 2 months with anxiety, you'd have to declare that to your insurers. My insurance certainly asked about time off work, and it will then be on your medical record

Public sector likely to be subject to different rules to private companies. Often public sector have no option - managing public money rules may apply - whereas private companies can do what they want.

They can't enforce contractual terms if they have already breached contract themselves so if their conduct is bad enough you could allege you've been constructively dismissed and then resign and say you're no longer bound by the terms of the contract because they breached them.

Very fact specific - you'd need some legal advice to understand how this might work/if it's a runner but worth a thought?

I'd be exploring that with you if you came to me for legal advice (no longer in practice but law hasn't changed since I was) x

I think you just need to work on the assumption that they will claw it back.

Can't you save the amount now, and have it sat waiting for your mat leave ending then if they do claw it back, it's sat in am account waiting.

I think it's a very entitled attitude to expect to take enhanced pay and then not pay it back. Regardless if they are doing well financially and it's a drop in the ocean.. if you're not planning on returning, you're not entitled to it.

Sorry to jump on thread (but may also help op) - does anyone know if you can use 4 weeks of the 18 weeks unpaid parental leave during your notice period to prevent you having to return to work but reduce the amount of time of clawback period you have to pay back?

Don't accept the enhanced mat pay if you're not returning op.

I had to pay back my enhanced maternity pay as my child was born with a disability and I could no longer do my ft job. Pt not available. I was allowed to pay back over a couple of years which I was grateful for.

I think you're behaviour is ridiculously entitled.

And we wonder why some companies won't employ women of childbearing age. Slow clap.

@ArmWrestlingWithChasNDave exactly.

Public sector here also and yes, it happened to someone in my team a while back

I would be really careful. I think making the noise may backfire on your especially if they are not a pleasant employer already, if they know you are unhappy they know you will leave so are even less likely to want to try and assist in a easy return to office for you and even less likely to want to accommodate working from home or less hours

I know many people who have enforced clawback in both the private and public sector.

My advice to you would be to think about your return , your annual leave and to try and work out how quickly and easily you can pass the 12 months . Can you stagger your return with all your accrued leave ? Meaning your back employed but potentially still off for 2 months? Can you request to use all your leave and work less days?

Finding a new role can take a little time so you could do the above and quite easily pass 6 months and then be safe to apply

Does the clawback have a sliding scale? Have you looked into that. Is it the entire amount in 12 months or if your back 6 months does it go down?

I totally sympathise with the horrors of returning to a unsympathetic employer after maternity but please don't jump in to quickly and shoot yourself in the food

I’m old so admit I have no skin in the game but to me this is very underhand. You took mat leave knowing what the pay and conditions were but now don’t like them so want to try and play the system. Just feels wrong regardless of the company’s financial circumstances.

We would do it. We offer a pretty generous maternity package. If we didn't enforce our policies the alternative would be be to reduce the maternity package.

We would begin by discussing a payment plan but would take you to court if we couldn't reach a satisfactory agreement or you didn't comply.

It would be cost neutral (might even cost more than worth) but would deter others from doing the same.

My friend had to pay back every penny

That's not a redundancy situation.

My previous company had the same - good enhanced package but with a clause that you come back for at least 12 months.

What happened is that after 6 months, my role was made redundant. They were very clear with me that because I/my role was made redundant, I did not have to pay back the maternity pay.

If for example, I was offered another internal role due to redundancy and chose not to accept it, that would count as resignation and therefore I would have to pay mat pay.

Other posters are correct in saying it’s your role, not you that gets made redundant. If your performance is poor, you will be sacked, not made redundant if your role itself is still required.

I also agree with other posters who question whether you’d be allowed to go down to 2 days. I actually went down from full time to 4 days last year and my boss explicitly said I could not go down to 3 days because of the nature of my role. So depends on your role.

If I were you, I wouldn’t risk it and I would bow out gracefully.

12 months is a long time. Usually would be a sliding scale:
https://workingfamilies.org.uk/articles/contractual-or-enhanced-maternity-pay-or-family-leave-pay/#:~:text=Repayment%20and%20Clawback%20Provisions&text=This%20means%20if%20certain%20conditions,maternity%20or%20family%20leave%20pay.

You should have your years worth of annual leave from maternity, plus the years worth of annual leave for your return to reduce that period by a couple of months. I'd probably try flexible working request first to reduce hours for the period of returning. Work out at what point you can afford to leave, look for a new job meanwhile. You could also use sick leave for stress.

unfortunately it is just a standard 12 months and if you leave before that then you have to pay it all back.

Because I do actually want to go back to work (only part time though) I don’t want to go back and then get signed off sick as this will mean no money coming in.

Our plan has always been to put the enhanced aside and save it and then I would call it quits with them after 6 months off so I could start a new job (if they did actually offer me part time hours, I would still quit because the money isn’t good enough to justify putting two kids in nursery and also because it is not worth the absolute stress), so if they did want all the money back we’ve got it put aside. I’m not worried about getting another job as I have never struggled before and I would be able to get a job that pays more too to make having 2 in nursery financially worth while.

I was more wanted to hear about other people’s experiences with claw backs and how the companies have handled them paying it back and if they had to pay back the net or gross amount - it all seems very vague.

It is a bit vague because I think some companies would just let it go rather than go to court, especially if they don't have money to burn.

I've not had this, but used to be involved with a charity nursery where we've just had to let things go (non payment of fees despite the parents claiming the free hours). They just ignored requests for payment entirely and there wasn't a lot the nursery could do about it. I imagine you could find the same thing happens with your work. Then again it might not. Someone on here has said they'd rather lose money chasing to deter others.

It isn't a nice plan but it might work out for you.

Maternity pay is indeed pretty shit if it isn't enhanced and I've never liked the clawback policies some companies have. Obviously you knew all this before.

I don't think anyone here can guess what your company will do though. I would ask HR if you have a good HR department so you're at least prepared.

Yes. I am a teacher and yes, the school did take it back. Meant I got effectively no pay for 2 months, but I knew that would happen so was ready to survive it!

Double check your clause. Whilst mine is only 3 months it is based on you working same hours. So if I went back 2 days as opposed to 4 I would have to work 6 months

My ex employer did this to me. But it was worth every penny to get out of there! My lovely mum graciously loaned me the full amount so I could pay it in 1 go rather than have any ties to them and I repay her monthly.

I know a teacher who had to pay it back.

With respect to getting made redundant in the bay pack period you shouldn’t then have to pay it back. Slightly different DH got paid relocation fees with a condition that he paid it back if he left within a certain period of time. He got made redundant in that time and didn’t have to pay it back

I’d just do the two days a week for 12 months. I’m not sure threatening to be a rubbish employee will work in your favour.